Crown Graphic, Speed Graphic: focal plane shutter

[deantaylor]

<p>hello--</p>

<p>Doing homework before LF equipment purchase...</p>

<p>interests: BW exclusively, street photography, night photos as well...</p>

<p>A dealer has a CG, excellent condition, for around $400, with Schneider Xenar 135 4.7</p>

<p>no focal plane, of course...having noted that,</p>

<p>Q: have you Speed Graphic owners used the focal shutter to any extent? I understand there is the possibility of more lens options therein--i.e., barrel lenses, etc. Please define 'barrel lens' (as, e.g., they pertain to the Speed Graphic). </p>

<p>also...if I wanted the option of a close-up portrait capability, what type of lens would be needed? Might the Schneider lens noted above suit that purpose? My untutored sense of the matter understands that lens to be the rough equivalent of a 35mm slr 50mm 'normal' lens--correct? In which case, another lens would be needed. Please advise...</p>

<p>Best,</p>

<p>Dean</p>

[Frank Petronio]

Most view camera lenses your encounter will be mounted in leaf shutters - Copals, Compurs, and several old American

brands in the case of Graphics. If you buy a standard post WW2 4x5 Speed Graphic then you have the choice of using

either the lens' leaf shutter or the focal plane shutter built into the body.

 

A Crown Graphic is similar to Speed Graphic without the built-in focal plane shutter. This gives the Crown the ability to

use wider (shorter) lenses and also lightens it by a noticeable amount.

 

A barrel lens is simply lens without a leaf shutter, usually the elements are mounted into a simple Brass barrel with a

mounting flange. I wouldn't want to start with a barrel lens myself.

 

Using small format lens focal length equivalents to decide on large format lenses is not as simple as it might seem, as

you increase the format you'll find that they "feel" different. In any case the 135 is perfectly matched to the bellows length

and capability of the Graphic press cameras... You can get away with a 180 or 210 but they present other compromises

on those cameras. Start with the 135, many great portraits have been made with them.

 

Also, you will not be able to reliably focus at headshot portrait distances using the rangefinder or handholding (unless you

blast a lot of flash and shoot at f/22 or something). And you'll want to use the leaf shutter to sync your flash.

 

For what you want, a late model 4x5 Graflex Crown Graphic with a top rangefinder and any of the stock 135mm

lens/shutter combinations - along with a flash bracket, your choice of flash, and a suitable sync cord (PC or Bipost

depending on the shutter) - is the ticket. Know that he closest you can accurately focus the thing is torso length. And buy

from a reliable dealer with return privileges, as most of the items sold at auction are from ignorant -or worse sellers.

 

Graflex.org and the largeformatphography.info sites will provide you with a ton of reference materials to help get you

started and their forum members are very helpful.

 

Have fun!

 

Oh and the answer about using the focal plane shutter? If you use a barrel lens or your leaf shutter breaks... Also the focal plane shutter can go to 1/1000th versus the 1/400th or 1/500th in case you want to attempt sports photography ;-)

 

$400 is a fair price for a Crown Graphic with Xenar if in good condition, check the rangefinder.

[BrianS1664879711]

<p>Frank know of what he speaks. Regarding the value of the focal plane shutter. I use one often with barrel lenses and find it very useful in that circumstance.</p>

[deantaylor]

<p>hello--</p>

<p>I haven't found a reliable resource for Speed Graphics. Other than the large retailers (they have a couple of Crowns in good shape) would you know of a trustworthy dealer (e.g., a collector) for Speed Graphics in good condition?<br>

Best,</p>

<p>Dean</p>

 

[BrianS1664879711]

<p>Remember how old these cameras are. Each one is individual and must be evaluated as such. I have found good condition Graphics on ebay. Shop carefully and heed all of the standard warinings... including the one that one must remember how old these cameras are and plan for additional investment in shutter overhaul.</p>

[tom_cheshire]

<p>I have to say I had a near mint Crown with top rangefinder and the rangefinder was a nightmare changing the little cams that reset the RF to one lens or another (if you can find cams). Additionally the top RF uses a metal tube filled with ball bearings to provide contact with the lower camera bed. Well, the plastic plug holding those ball bearings in there pops out sometimes and your beautiful Crown turns into something more like a pinball machine or Pachinko game. Actually the ball bearings are interspaced with cylindrical "bits" but it is another nightmare getting them back in order in the tube (think tweezers and and an hour at least then trying to remember if the last one inserted was the round or cylindrical ball bearing because you had to take a break to answer the phone or fish out a dropped ball bearing). So, for me, the side RF is the way to go. In fact, no RF is better.</p>

<p>I'm in favor of Speed Graphics because of the focal plane shutter. With that I get to use any lens I find even for experimenting. And, if you find someone selling a lens in a bad shutter, so what, just use the focal plane. With an FP shutter, you get to use all sorts of lenses even from copy machines, enlargers, etc.</p>

<p>And the Super Graphic or Super Speed Graphic, I was glad to sell mine.</p>

<p>Places to buy Graphics: Midwest Photo Exchange (online). They bought out what was left of Graphic when the last repair station shut years ago.</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>See http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_7.html<br>

The Crown Graphic Special with a Schneider Xenar sold for some $20 to $30 less than a Crown with a Graphic Optar according to the Graflex expert on graflex.org. Ebay sellers over price these. The Crown Graphic Special says so on the top lens board lock and was introduced to boost camera sales.</p>

<p>http://www.keh.com/ is another used camera dealer that can be trusted.</p>

<p>The "normal" lens for a format is based on the diagonal of that format. The 24mm x 36mm frame of 35mm has a diagonal of 43mm with a 50mm considered normal.<br>

The 4x5 format image area has a diagonal of 159mm and 152 is considered normal. 135mm is medium wide and 127mm wide. The Crown and Speed were designed as Press cameras and wide angle lens were the most common as the press photographer had to get in close.</p>

[Frank Petronio]

It's been a while since I hung out here and I am not sure if I can mention ePray but there is a seller

named "mwmabry" who I have boughten several Graphics from. He is knowledgable about them and

you can trust that their rangefinders and shutters are working properly. Of course he charges more than

the people who claim they found Grandpa's camera in the attic and know nothing about photography. To

me it is worth it in terms of avoiding hassles and repair charges.

 

MPEX.com (Midwest Photo Exchange) is also good. KEH is a little less knowledgable but they have

easy returns.

 

The reason I favor the top rangefinders is because they were the latest models and the cam, while a

real pain to change, is more reliable than the screw adjustments on the side-mounted Kalart

rangefinder, at least in my experience. I am sure a properly cleaned and adjusted Kalart is at least as

good but I've never been able to adjust them perfectly. In any event, switching lenses and adjusting

rangefinders or cams is a pain in the butt so many people work around that by scale focusing from the

stock 135 distance scale, or focusing on the ground glass (always the most accurate way). I'm arguing to just leave the camera in as stock a configuration as possible, stick with the 135/4.7 with the dedicated cam or factory adjusted Kalart RF.

 

It's good to note that if you want to do something like focus and shoot with a wide open lens, the depth

of field is very shallow and the margin of error for the rangefinder is usually much larger than the depth

of field, especially at closer portrait distances. If you think of the old press photographers using these

cameras remember that they often used flash, pushed the film, stopped down to f/22, shot from further

away and cropped in a lot because the 4x5 could withstand drastic cropping. Most modern large format

portraiture is done with tripod mounted cameras and ground glass focusing, in which case a Graphic

type camera is unnecessary unless you want a cheap, rugged, folding camera that is pretty compact

and simple.

 

I use a monorail for most of my work but have a Crown for down and dirty or handheld stuff.

[John Crowe]

<p>I bought a Speed Graphic specifically for the focal plane shutter, so that I could use barrel lenses or lenses with poor shutters, and ended up never using the focal plane shutter. My only use for the camera was for landscapes and architecture at f22 to f45 using primarily a 65mm f8 SA. With films of 50-100 ISO this meant exposures of 20 to 2 seconds. If memory serves correctly the Speed Graphic only goes to 1/10 second, so it's speed range was useless to me, not to mention the speed range of shutters as well.</p>

<p>I played with a 210mm and 300mm barrel lens for the heck of it but within a couple of photos each gave up on that idea. My failure with these was likely more the inability to time the long exposures, that I required, consistently, then anything else. </p>

<p>For handheld steet photography, the typical shooting speeds of 1/60 to 1/200 are well within the range of the focal plane shutter, perhaps making it useful. My only concern would be camera shake during the exposure as that is one big cloth shutter mechanism. In it's prime the camera was typically used with flash for newspaper prints so camera shake was not likely a concern.</p>

<p>The Graphics are a nice simple and compact way of learning 4x5 photography. They are much lighter than the metal Linhof Technicas I had also considered. Have fun with either route that you go.</p>

<p>The 135mm lens is slightly wide on 4x5 and I suspect that you may end up wanting to go wider with either a 120mm f5.6 or 90mm f6.8 lens for street photography. Take note that these maximum apertures are a far cry from the f1.4 to f2.8 that you may typically be used to with the 35mm format. That was my first shock! I believe the 90mm would not be a problem for focusing using the Graphic bellows/bed rail. My 65/8 was a nightmare since I had to focus by awkwardly shifting it on the rail inside the camera box, as opposed to the rail on the camera bed. Of course I was always close to infinity focusing which was the worst case scenario. I think the 135 would work fine for portraits, though a 210mm lens may be your ultimate choice.</p>

<p>Though most of my photography was with the camera on a tripod using the ground glass for focus I did use the 135mm lens with the viewfinder focusing/framing for the first year or so and it worked well. I even shot handheld from a canoe with this method and it worked very easily! </p>

<p>My second shock with large format was the limited depth of field, which may actually work in your favour.</p>

<p>Again, have fun, and be prepared to be patient with the whole process. You will find the image quality from 4x5 to be simply stunning! </p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[gene_aker2]

<p>Hi Dean. You can see from the responses that plenty of us still shoot with the Graphic cameras. <br>

Remember that for several generations of press photographers, the Graphics were the Go-To cameras for street and handheld. Check into Graflex.org, a great site for detailed information.<br>

Mine is called a Super Graphic --it was the final model of the long evolution---and is super for fast hand held street shooting. It's also great for group portraits, singles, and waist-up portraits.<br>

However, when you want to do close-up portraits in large format, you will need at least a 300mm lens-and that will require more bellows (at least 12 inches) than most of these press cameras have. You might look into a monorail for that. There are some nice Calumet rails with 16 and 22 inches.</p>