different color Temperatures with flash outside

[d._david_young]

<p>hi all>I shoot and enjoy black and white film more than color (so there is no need to balance color): But have been trying to master one Main (light) flash (facial) portraits outdoors late in the evening with nice flat "fill" natural light to my "main" flash head.<br>

-my problem is at that late in the evening my flash's temperature is so far from the temperature of the evenings that there are different color casts on the skin. I know I can overpower natural light as fill but only want to use flash as main and natural light as fill.<br>

also, my 1Ds I is set to "sun" in white balance.<br>

>anyone have solutions or want to share their workflow?<br>

thanks, Doug Y</p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>Google CTO gels, you can put one on the flash to adjust the colour temp.</p>

 

[m_tt_donuts]

<p>x2 on the gels. You use a gel to change the color of your flash to match the sun. My flash came with an incandescent and flourescent gel... I frequently use the incandescent gel indoors to prevent the my flash is white and the incandescent light/background is orange. </p>

<p>I was in a pinch and wanted a blue gel on one flash, red on the other but wouldn't get them in time and I went to CVS and purchased a folder that had plastic color separators. I was able to cut the shape out for my flash and they've worked great so you may be able to find some plastic binder seperators near/close to the color you want.</p>

[d._david_young]

<p>thanks guys, I was <em>hoping</em> to avoid using gels: I worked for an photographer who did interiors and eyeballed balancing light by holding different gels to his eye (but skin needs more color accuracy I think). There are so many different temperature gels used between basic gels etc. to get an accurate balance; the best way besides a color meter would be to preview live on a tablet while doing a set up outdoors and balance from there.DY</p>

[d._david_young]

<p>I could also correct the color in post but it does not suit my workflow; I would rather shoot it correctly the first time!</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>Not sure that you have much choice but to use gels for what you want to do. As it sounds like you're aware, CTOs are available in full, half and quarter strengths (mabye more) so that you can find the degree of correction you need. But evening light changes quickly, so you might start out with a quarter CTO and work your way up to a full CTO during the time it takes to shoot.</p>

[d._david_young]

<p>Craig, my sentiments exactly about light changing quickly around sunset! It would make more sense to shoot into the light (front-lit) with a warmer natural (sunsety yellowish) fill with a "whiter" flash for main light. More pleasing anyway.</p>

[ian_casement]

<p>With the sun on your subject, do a custom white balance using a white or grey card (which will then provide the correct colour temperature for your lighting), note the camera colour temperature setting and apply a conversion filter to your flash for it to match that colour temperature*. With your lighting now having the correct colour balance, you can increase the colour temperature setting of your camera with the aim of shifting the white balance away from 'correct' to introduce the level of warmth you require.</p>

<p>* You need to know the colour temperature of your flash unit and whatever modifier you intend using. Establish this beforehand by following the custom white balance procedure and reading the result provided by your camera. You then have an original source value to work from.</p>

<p>A conversion table is available here: http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/mired-shift-calculator.html</p>

 

[igord]

<p>Camera on tungsten and CTO gel on your lamp, nice colors.</p>

 

[d._david_young]

<p>thanks Igor D.: I'll try it!<br>

I also use tungsten with blue gel + frosted with -1/2-1 aperture f/stop off of a flash with box for nice mix with 1Ds on sunny setting indoors with as little ambient as possibe.-.>DY</p>

[d._david_young]

<p>Has anyone figured a way without using gels on flash or lens to get natural skin tones with <em>only</em> the white balance on modern DSLRs? As per original question: with one main flash + ambient outdoor natural light as fill light?>D, any genius intuitions? experiments? Is it possible?</p>

[d._david_young]

<p>hi Ian<br>

the color temperature from the flash is my "K", constant, so won't it make more sense to filter the lens in this solution?>thanks, DY</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>Setting the camera white balance to tungsten will make things worse, since it'll remove the warm tones of late evening sun that you're after - and you'll still have a mismatch between flash and ambient light unless you use CTO filters on the flash. I suggest buying a sheet of 1/8 CTO lighting gel and experimenting with it. Extra layers of gel can be added to strengthen the effect. 2 layers for 1/4 CTO etc.</p>

<p>"Has anyone figured a way without using gels on flash or lens to get natural skin tones with <em>only</em> the white balance on modern DSLRs?" - Not possible. There's no WB setting that will change the CT of the flash without altering the ambient/daylight CT as well. Gels on the flash are the obvious and maybe only solution. You don't have to match the two CTs perfectly, as the eye is fairly forgiving of warm skin tones. You just have to make sure the key light is as warm as, or warmer than the fill light and avoid cold flesh tones.</p>

[d._david_young]

<p>hi Rodeo Joe:<br>

I want to keep things as "simple" as possible-"Not possible." is kind-of-a-challenge to me to do solve it:-)!<br>

"Setting the camera white balance to tungsten will make things worse..."-Rodeo, if you are referring to the poster on the previous page I believe he was referring to studio work under controlled lighting circumstances. Outdoors is totally different with alot of variables besides color temp.</p>

<p> </p>

[d._david_young]

<p>thanks <em>everyone</em> for <strong>sharing</strong> your thoughts!</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>What's not simple about taping a layer or two of gel over your flash?</p>

<p>"I believe he was referring to studio work under controlled lighting circumstances." - He doesn't say that, and how would that help with your outdoor evening shots anyway?</p>

<p>David, if you can find another solution to this, then I'm sure we'd all be extremely glad to hear about it.<br>

I can envisage a portable lighting system, maybe based on LEDs, that could be infinitely varied in Colour Temperature. Could also have a built-in colour meter to automatically adjust itself to match the ambient light. Trouble is that it only exists in my head, and with currently available LED technology would cost a fortune and output a pathetic amount of light.</p>

[fotografz]

<p>The challenge is using one artificial light, and ambient as fill. So you are dealing with multiple variables ... changing strength and color temperature of the ambient, and having to adjust the single light as it does (both in output and color temperature). Matching CTOs to changing ambient levels is a big PITA when spontaneously shooting portraits ... unless you have a lighting tech with you. </p>

<p>My question is why?</p>

<p>Late evening is usually blueish ambient anyway. If you mean sunset "golden hour", you won't need as much flash and the ambient scene will be awash with warmth. Hard to tell what you are looking for without an example of what didn't work for you.</p>

<p>I just use a simple off-camera key light and on-camera TTL speed-light for +/- fill to assure proper skin tones, and control the background ambient levels with shutter speed. Normal color balance for skin is easy using manual WB. The background can be controlled using the shutter speed to accomplish either more or less saturation which mitigates the color temp. Faster shutter speed equals deeper exposure and more saturated colors, slower shutter speeds open up the background (AKA, Dragging The Shutter).</p>

<p>In addition to gells, the other alternative choice is use of gold modifiers on the flash. I use a gold/silver octabox on my off-camera strobe for example. </p>

<p> </p>

[ian_casement]

<blockquote>

<p>hi Ian<br />the color temperature from the flash is my "K", constant, so won't it make more sense to filter the lens in this solution?>thanks, DY</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Filtering the lens will affect both ambient and flash - so how would that help? Both would be affected equally and the imbalance would remain.</p>