Lightroom Renaming Images

[anthonybagileo]

<p>Ill try to be brief. Once I get to a group of selected photos that I like to show to a client I rename them in LR4 with a simple sequence-date format(.At that point Im just working on RAW files. I convert to DNG at the end of the job). Works simple so the client can just pick the prefix. My issue is the following. I generally only crop out nuisances but leave the photos in the original proportions on initial export to client. But there are always a few that I have to make crops to show the client the effect. In the case where Id like to show the client BOTH versions I cant without messing up the number system. LR will not allow me to rename the virtual copies with my number sequence and obviously won't create a new DNG. So, I can export jpegs to the client, including the crops, by using the simple number sequence, but now the prefixes will be different on export because the virtual copies are just renamed as file number/copy. So if a client emails me and says I want photo #10 on the jpeg I sent, when I go back to the library it may not be photo #10. It likely will be 9 I think. Is there a way around this thats simple? I have my workflow rocking and rolling fast otherwise and I dont want to mess with it too much. I know that this is kind of a silly question because once I export the files to a folder and send it to the client I can back track the photos from the folder to LR. But it would be much simpler for an end around to renaming the virtual copies.</p>

<p>My second question is this. When I convert to DNG at the end, will all the virtual copy information be in the file? So for example, I open up the DNG some other time, maybe in BRidge. Will I be able to see the original as well as the crops. I would imagine the answer is yes. And I dont embed the RAW file. The RAWS are stored elsewhere for emergency use.<br>

Guess that wasn't so brief.</p>

 

[mark_sirota1]

<p>I'll answer the second question first, because it's easier. Virtual Copies are not included in XMP data, so Bridge cannot see them. They exist only in the Lightroom catalog.</p>

<p>If you save your alternate crops as Snapshots instead of VCs then Bridge will be able to see them. Don't forget that you need to write out the XMP data to faciliate this, either by pressing Command/Control-S or by enabling auto-write in the Preferences.</p>

<p>The cool thing is that if you save a snapshot in any Virtual Copy, the snapshot is visible in all VCs for that file. That's handy because then you can use a plug-in like <a href="http://www.photographers-toolbox.com/products/mdawson/tpgsnapshotter/">Snapshotter from Matt Dawson</a> to create the snapshots.</p>

<p>I'll answer the renaming question in a separate reply soon.</p>

[anthonybagileo]

Thanks Mark. Maybe I am confused. I convert to dng at the end and thought the dng would include the virtual copy info. I

do automatically write XMP but that still confuses me. I thought when converting to dng lr writes all the Lightroom info and

I really don't have to worry about writing or not writing XMP. I thought it was auto included when converting to Dng.

[mark_sirota1]

<p>There are two separate points of confusion here:<br>

(1) Converting to DNG is sort of orthogonal to the question of whether VCs are included in the XMP data. The difference between your proprietary raw files and DNG files are that the XMP data is included within the file for DNGs, or in a sidecar for proprietary raw files. But it's the same data, called XMP. It's just the container that differs.</p>

<p>(2) The XMP specification does not include all the stuff that the Lightroom catalog knows. In addition to virtual copies, it also doesn't include stacks, collection membership, and a bunch of other stuff.</p>

<p>My recommendation of Snapshotter works around this, because snapshots are included in XMP. You create snapshots for each "finished" version, and then they'll be visible in any XMP-aware application such as Bridge.</p>

 

[anthonybagileo]

That clears up a lot. So In other words, automatically writing XMP is continually writing those changes to the original raw

files? So theoretically , but probably minute, it slows Lr down if at all. And at the end I don't have to export any XMP when

I convert to dng? But if I didn't auto write XMP I would have to prior to dng conversion? And if I didn't auto write XMP that

would mean that any further work on that converted dng would have to be updated by file save, ctrl-s ?

[mark_sirota1]

<p>Getting back to the sequence naming question: Unfortunately there isn't a simple answer to this, if you require sequential numbers. There are a few options:</p>

<p>First, I've been lobbying for exported filename to make its way into searchable metadata. That is, if you rename on export, I believe Lightroom should store that new filename with the original so that you can search for it after the client says "That one!" If you agree, please say so on Adobe's <a href="http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family">Official Feature Request Forum</a>. (There are ways to include the exported filename in a Snapshot, such as with <a href="http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/snapshot-on-export">Jeffrey's Snapshot on Export</a> plug-in, but snapshots are not searchable.) Until that happens, there are a couple of viable workarounds:</p>

<p>(1) Rename in Lightroom before export using sequence numbers, then export using "Filename" as a naming template. The VCs will get names like "Filename-2". Or rename on export using something like "Filename-Copyname", so the VCs will get names like "Filename-8x10" and "Filename-5x7". The downside to this is that within Lightroom the sequence number will get confusing with those files that weren't included in the exports. Of course you could then rename back to the original filename within Lightroom, but now we're getting silly. I personally hate renaming within Lightroom -- it means that files will have to be backed up again because their filenames changed, and if you later export some of the same photos for a different set (e.g. for the bride's family and then for the groom's family) the sequence number may be different, just adding to the confusion.</p>

<p>(2) Give up on sequential numbers. Instead, use the original file number generated by the camera. Then you don't have to rename in Lightroom; just export with the -2 or -8x10 model as described above. But there will be holes in the sequence causing clients to ask about the photos in-between (I explain to them that part of my job is to separate the wheat from the chaff, and even we pros get some duds) and they don't sort well when the camera wraps from 9999 to 0001, and it doesn't work well if you're shooting with multiple cameras or trying to present in any order other than chronological.</p>

<p>That's about the best I've got, warts and all. Anyone else have a good solution for this one?</p>

[mark_sirota1]

<blockquote>

<p>That clears up a lot. So In other words, automatically writing XMP is continually writing those changes to the original raw files? So theoretically , but probably minute, it slows Lr down if at all. And at the end I don't have to export any XMP when I convert to dng? But if I didn't auto write XMP I would have to prior to dng conversion? And if I didn't auto write XMP that would mean that any further work on that converted dng would have to be updated by file save, ctrl-s ?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Automatically writing XMP is continually writing changes to the container for the XMP data. For proprietary raw files, the container is a .xmp sidecar file. For DNG files, the container is a portion of the DNG file itself. Yes, this is having a performance impact. The writes happen in a background thread and so the effect should be quite minimal, but you can detect it if you make a big change to a lot of files -- for example, add a whole bunch of spot removals or local adjustment brushes (these require a large number of bytes in the DNG to encode), then sync that to a large number of files.</p>

<p>So since you have auto-write enabled, you don't need to do anything explicit about this when you convert to DNG. It will suck the data out of the .xmp sidecar file and write it into the new DNG file automagically. If you didn't have auto-write enabled, you'd have to save the XMP data somehow to make it visible to Bridge, and it doesn't matter whether that's before or after conversion to DNG.</p>

[herma]

<p>Wow, that is a complicated workflow.... Why not export a folder with temporary low rez cropped? Why on earth would you show them 2 versions? What they don't know, won't hurt them. You probably have not been a bride... but too many options creates nothing but stress.</p>

[mark_sirota1]

<blockquote>

<p>(There are ways to include the exported filename in a Snapshot, such as with <a href="http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/snapshot-on-export" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jeffrey's Snapshot on Export</a> plug-in, but snapshots are not searchable.)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Great news! Last night Jeffrey released a new version of his <a href="http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/extended-search">Extended Search</a> plug-in which can search snapshot names, so there is now a complete solution to your problem.</p>

<p>Use Snapshot on Export to make a snapshot which includes the name of the exported file. Different crops will still get different filenames, but that's no longer a problem -- when the client says they want #10, use Extended Search to look for it.</p>