Tamron 200-500 mm lens & 1.4x extender

[dave_gurtcheff1]

I just bought a used 200-500 Tamron on ebay for a very reasonable price, in Nikon mount. Thinking I may need a little more reach for

wading birds in our area, I considered a Tamron SP 1.4x extender. Concerned with compatibility, I emailed Tamron, to check

compatibility. To my amazement, and surprise, I was told Tamron extenders "were not for use with digital cameras". They referred me to

a technical bullitin that said image quality would be extremely degraded, and there would possibly be communication errors. Their SP

series are said to be Pro -Level, so i was surprised. I was aware I would loose auto focus, but I am amazed Tamron is letting the extender

market slip away. Anyone using an extender with this specific lens? Which extender?

Thanks in advance

Dave

[Michael R Freeman]

<blockquote>

<p><em>To my amazement, and surprise, I was told Tamron extenders "were not for use with digital cameras".</em></p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>To my amazement and surprise as well. I use (on rare occasions) a Tamron SP-AF 1.4X on a Nikon D200 with an AF 80~200/2.8D, and notice no such foolishness as "extremely degraded" images or "communication errors".</p>

<p>That said, I would think that the 200~500mm would be a <strong>very poor</strong> candidate for <strong>any</strong> 1.4X converter. You're looking at a maximum aperture of f/9.0 on the long end so autofocus will be very unreliable (if it works at all). And manual focus on that dim of a viewfinder screen will be "challenging".</p>

[dave_gurtcheff1]

Thanks michael. I am coming from canon 1DS, 1DSII, And 1DSIII, and used a Canon 500 mm f4 IS. I am now 75 years

old , just changd to a Nikon system ( Nikon D 800E), and looking into an economical long focus

Lens, that I will only use from time to time. I know there will certainly be

compromises.

Best

Dave

[dave_gurtcheff1]

Michael:

Here is a copy of what I received from Tamron. I agree, unbelievable.

 

Hi Dave,

Thanks for contacting Tamron! Teleconverters are not compatible with digital lenses/cameras. You may experience

extreme image quality or communication issues.  For more information, please see this service update:

http://www.tamron-usa.com/about/updates_teles.asp

 

If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to contact me!

 

 

Regards,

 

Pamela Follett

Customer Service Supervisor

Tamron USA, Inc

[Jerry_]

<p>Nikon camera bodies generally like f5.6 or brighter to Auto-Focus. Adding a teleconverter to a 200-500mm lens will result in a loss of your money, along with the D800E's ability to auto-focus...as noted above.</p>

<p> </p>

[frank_skomial]

<p>There is one PRO Nikon camera that allows Auto-Focus to work up to F=8, but that is not the D800.</p>

<p>Read about it here.</p>

<p><a href="../equipment/nikon/D4/preview/">http://www.photo.net/equipment/nikon/D4/preview/</a></p>

<p>In any case, the converter for this lens is not a good match.</p>

<p>I am nicely surprised by honesty expressed by Tamron.<br /> It is about high time that some other vendors stop misrepresenting their products by providing farfetched claims, and provide true spects and operating descriptions instead.</p>

[elliot1]

<p>Frank, the D4 and D800/D800e bodies share the same AF system and the D800/D800e bodies do in fact AF at f8.</p>

[Hector Javkin]

<p>I think it's good that Tamron is warning you about the TC. Companies don't often do that. I would believe them. You are planning to use the camera which is perhaps most demanding of all in terms of lens quality, attach it to a used Tamron 200-500 (which is not great if it's the older model) and demand even more from the optics by adding magnification with a TC they don't consider good enough. Is it possible that Tamron might be concerned that you'll be unhappy with your images? That you'll tell everyone what lousy images you got? Or show everyone what lousy images you got? They're being responsible, which is refreshing. When Toyota tells me that that my Camry isn't designed for off-roading, I believe them.</p>

<p>If you'll only need that kind of reach "from time to time" why don't you rent a quality long lens when you need it?</p>

[dave_gurtcheff1]

Thanks Hector. We have wetlands in front us where we get wading birds, so I never know when an opportunity will arise,

so a rental will not work for me....good advise though.

Regards

Dave

[Two23]

<p>I too applaud Tamron for being honest and not recommending a TC for that lens. Your best bet is to build a blind and get closer. Now to throw out another thought. Maybe you have the wrong camera for what you want to do. A Nikon D300 or D7000 has a sort of 1.5x TC built in. The DX crop would work much better for what you want to do than the FX D800. Nikon should be releasing a D300 successor at some point, and that would be the camera that would be the best match for what you want, not a d800.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[dan_beauvais]

<p>Hi Dave, consider this.... The D800/D800e has a 36 MPixel sensor. Crop away 2/3 of the image, you still have 12 MPixels - which was the rage on the new D3 at the Beijing Olympics. An unsung capability of high MP cameras is the "cropability." So crop rather than use a optically awkward teleconverter.</p>

[CvhKaar]

<blockquote>

<p> The DX crop would work much better for what you want to do than the FX D800</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Don't know how good it is on a D800E, but i understand that you can switch it to "Crop mode"too... ?</p>

[Two23]

<p>Not sure why you'd buy a $3,000 camera just to use basically then use it as a DX camera though. Might as well have bought a $900 refurb D7000 or even a <$500 D3200 and put that extra money on a better (used) Nikon lens rather than the Tamron. The lens is more important than the camera.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Kent: Dave did say he'd use it "from time to time". Just because some of us have used the D800 in DX mode doesn't mean we <i>always</i> use it in crop mode. I've never bothered with the 4MP results of DX on my D700, but on the D800, DX mode is useful.<br />

<br />

Dave: I'd be wary of the -500mm zooms. I've not been happy with my Sigma 150-500 (past about 400mm) even on a D700; I've yet to try it on my D800, but I'm not expecting it to get better. My understanding (from multiple comparative reviews, I've not tried one) is that the Tamron is generally considered to be worse. Even without a teleconverter, you're not going to get near the quality of a Canon 500 f/4.<br />

<br />

Suggestions: For static birds, the 500 f/4 AI-P (and a big tripod) is pretty good for the money. I say static birds because it's manual focus. If you hack the protruding lump of metal from a TC-14E it works reasonably well with that, giving you 700mm f/5.6. You can also re-wire a TC-16A and get a partially-autofocussing 800mm f/6.4 (which is actually supported by the autofocus on the D800) - though I'd not expect sharp corners. I've only tried these on a D700 so far, and I expect to have to stop down a bit on the D800, but I've much higher hopes than for my Sigma. The D700 seems to focus okay despite the slow aperture, but the D800 should be better. Bear in mind the -500mm zooms (other than the f/2.8 Sigzilla) are f/6.3 at the long end, and with a 1.4x teleconverter that's nearly f/9 - beyond the limit of even the D800's autofocus, and diffraction limited even before you stop the lens down for performance.<br />

<br />

The next "budget" option is probably a Sigma 500mm f/4.5, or look for an old 500mm AF-S. Or just get a T-mount and stick it on a telescope. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a good, budget, supertelephoto.<br />

<br />

If you're after smaller, the 300 f/4 is supposedly decent, and would take a 1.4x teleconverter acceptably (but you'd be struggling once you got past 600 f/8). A Sigma 300 f/2.8 would be a better and surprisingly cheap route to 600mm, but since stacking teleconverters is usually not a good idea, again you're a bit limited past the 600mm end.<br />

<br />

That said, I found 800mm (500 f/4 AI-P + TC-16A) very difficult to use on the D700 - the field of view is so narrow it's difficult to aim accurately. One advantage of the supertelephoto zooms is that they can be their own finder scopes. A D800 in DX crop mode would also have this advantage, since you can still see the surrounding FX frame area.<br />

<br />

Good luck, whatever you choose.</p>

[dave_gurtcheff1]

Thank you Andrew for the thoughtful, and complete reply. The bulk of my work is seascapes, so I do use top quality wide

lenses;I reguarly make 20"x30" prints. Only occaisionally do I get a chance to shoot wading birds, so thus my desire for a

lower cost long lens. I am switching over from a SONY A 900, and I must say, the Minolta 500 mirror was a GREAT

bargain. Auto focus, and in camera stabilization. If you can nail focus, it is surprisinly sharp. I may just keep the body and

500 cat lens for those few bird opportunities I get.

Thank you again

Dave Gurtcheff

Beach Haven, NJ

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Hi Dave. Glad to help.</p>

<p>I almost suggested a mirror lens to you. I may be doing the zooms a disservice - I've heard underwhelming things about even the better mirror lenses, so I guess it depends what you're after; I'm surprised that you're happy with one in comparision with the Canon 500 f/4. though.</p>

<p>I won't definitively say that the zooms are useless, especially since I only have experience with the Sigma, not the Tamron; I <em>will</em> say that I'd be surprised if one does the D800 justice, and that teleconverting one is unlikely to go well (but I've not tried that). The reviews do seem pretty consistent about the limits of performance, so while I don't want to belittle the efforts of the optical engineers involved, I don't want you to expect perfection.</p>

<p>If you've been happy with a mirror lens and you can live with a tripod (I certainly can't hand-hold it unstabilised), I do think you should keep an eye out for a 500 f/4 AI-P on KEH. If you want portability, unfortunately I think you, like many, are going to be waiting for Nikon to produce a VR version of the 300mm f/4 - or tie yourself to at least a monopod with the current version; stick a TC-14E or a D3200 (for not much more than the price of a teleconverter) on that and you'd not have dissimilar results to your A900 setup.</p>

<p>Good luck, and welcome to the dark (lens) side!</p>

[dave_gurtcheff1]

Thanks again Andrew. the lens came today, so we will see. I told my wife (of 53 years...she knows I am always buying

toys), that I was keeping the shipping box, because there was a 90 precent probability, I would not be happy, and would

re-sell. I partly based the decision to buy used (it looks brand new ) from the right up on LensRental.com. I have great

respect for his opinion, and he can and does rent the big guns (read expensive). here is a quote:

 

 

A very interesting supertelephoto zoom with a marvelous range. It does not have Vibration Reduction. Its widest aperture

is f/5 so a tripod is recommended when the lighting is less than good, and it’s not fast enough to stop action for sports

shooting. However, the Tamron is reasonably lightweight (quite a bit lighter than the Nikon 80-400), quite sharp

throughout its zoom range, and can focus as closely as 2.5 meters which can be quite interesting at the 500mm length.

 

Roger's Take

Roger Cicala

President of LensRentals.com

Everyone forgets about this telephoto zoom, but it should be considered for all of you who are backpacking and hiking.

It’s a nice sharp lens that is much lighter in weight than anything else available. You’ll need either very good light or a

tripod to get sharp 500mm photos at f/6.3, but given that it produces great images.

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Interesting, Dave - let us know how you get on? My Sigma needs stopping down to f/11 before it really gets sharp on my D700 at 500mm, which removes the benefit of the optical stabilizer; it also means it'll be diffraction-limited on the D800. It's not awful, but it's clearly a bit optically flawed, whereas the big prime isn't so much. Others have seemed happier with theirs. I should have another go calibrating the autofocus on my D800, but I'm reasonably sure that I gave it a manual test in the past. I'll be interest in whether the Tamron is actually a viable alternative, since not all reviews are equal (and some liked the Sigma when it came out).</p>

[dave_gurtcheff1]

<p>Hi again Andrew. Regarding mirror lenses, maybe I just got an excellent sample of the Minolta. Here is a monopod shot of a Hawk, I used auto focus to zoom in, than manually touched up focus. I hope I am allowed to link to the photo. I went out on our dock, and made some test shots all at 500mm, tripod, Shutter preferred, 1/1000 sec, cable release. Some mirror locked up, some not. Will report back.<br>

Best.....<br>

Dave</p>

<p><a href="http://www.modernpictorials.com/wildlife%20images/WILD%20LIFE/D387A.jpg">http://www.modernpictorials.com/wildlife%20images/WILD%20LIFE/D387A.jpg</a></p>

[marypar4]

<p>Hi Dave<br>

I also own the tammy 200-500 I use it with both the D90 and my D7000 despite what others might says it is quite a remarkable lens for the money. I paid $400 for mine several years ago and have taken some stunning shots with it I often use in at Forsythe preserve where the wading ducks tend to be a bit far away. I always use it with a beanbag or tripod as not to steady handholding. I do not think a teleconverter would be advisable as it is a slow lens but very sharp. I think you will be pleasantly surprised but give it a chance before you judge.</p>