Found Film

[christopher_ward2]

<p>I have found a box of 25 B&W slide and negative rolls in a box of misc photo stuff. Family unknown ,camera<br>

unknown. These are travel/family shots from 1928-34 Germany. The rolls are stiff and I'm thinking of loading<br>

them into a tank with warm water ,hanging them ,then cutting them into 5 frame strips. They came with a box<br>

of mixed photo gear years ago. Not sure if I should mess with them or leave them alone. Any thoughts?<br>

If uncurled and cut they may be printed for curiosity sake. <br>

Chris</p><div></div>

[mfophotos]

<p>That is a pretty unusual find! You might want to contact a curator at George Eastman House in Rochester. If it's 35mm, the chances are high that they were shot with a Leica. </p>

[john_robison3]

<p>When was the change made to "safety film" ? Just make sure the film base is not cellulose nitrate as it is highly flammable. So be careful handling the film.</p>

[john_robison3]

<p>Back again.<br>

It is very important that you be VERY careful with this film until you can confirm what material the base is. A search for 'cellulose nitrate film' will bring up sites that warn of the dangers and give instructions on handling. Cellulose nitrate film can 'auto ignite' at temps as low as 38C. It has it's own oxygen source and is very hard to extinguish. When it starts to break down it becomes very dangerous to handle at all. This is a caution and warning. Be sure what you have there. </p>

<p>If the film edge print says "safety film" then it is probably cellulose acetate, safe to handle. </p>

<p> </p>

[christopher_ward2]

<p>All but one roll has edge markings.The ones not marked "safety" are Agfa ,Agfa Isopan ISS ,Zeiss Ikon and Norel<br>

onn. Not sure if they are unmarked safety or old film base.<br>

They have bounce around with me for 20 years. More of the "not worth anything but too good to throw away" <br>

stuff that seems to fill my storeroom.</p><div></div>

[christopher_ward2]

<p>Seems Germany passed a "Safety Film" law in 1940. Some of these are Nitrate. Been lucky so far ...<br>

no BOOM in the storeroom.<br>

Chris</p>

[gerry b.]

<p>It would be good if you could get more information on their historical value. It can be extremely difficult to relax film of that age that has such a tight wind. I have seen cases in which the film was rewashed, dried, and then the film developed a severe curl in its other axis!</p>

<p>If it has significant historical importance, a professional photograph conservator ought to deal with it. Early safety film also has a decay condition called vinegar syndrome that makes the film smell like acetic acid. Both nitrate and safety film that has developed vinegar syndrome should be stored separately from your modern negatives and prints, as they can off-gas fumes that can damage modern photographic materials.</p>

[tom_cheshire]

<p>Now that you mention it, what do people do with old negatives? I have a box of 6x9 that I can't really make out if they are Korea war or World War II. The neg.s show lots of military fly guys it looks like at various scenes mostly what looks like a club and a few snowy scenes.</p>

[peter_simpson1]

<p>Funny. I have kind of the same thing. Shot by my grandfather with something half-frame that exposed in landscape orientation. There seem to be almost an equal number of negatives and positives. We're talking about "filmstrip" here: the positives were almost certainly for projection in some kind of half-frame projector (which, of course, I did not get, along with the Leica I think he had -- other relatives were faster!)<br>

<br /> Dates are in the early 30s, pix of my mom as an 11 year old, need to set up the Nikon slide copier and start clicking and feeding. I hate to think how many exposures I'll be taking! There are no safety markings, but also no vinegar smell...</p>

[john_robison3]

<p>Peter, a vinegar smell would indicate safety film, cellulose acetate base breaks down and releases acetic acid, the vinegar smell. The nitrate base film breaks down with a more acrid and still more unpleasant smell. The real test is to snip a small piece of the film, take it outside and test it with a match. If it burns vigorously then it's not safety film. Just a little piece now, a strip 1/4 inch wide should be plenty. If your film looks to be in good shape then is should be safe to pull through your slide copier, but slowly and carefully, to avoid friction heating.</p>

[Barry Dale]

<p>I have boxes of negatives from the 30's through the 70's inherited from my father. I want to preserve them digitally. They are all types of formats up to the 70's then all 35mm and medium format. What kind(s) of scanner do I need? Will one do the job for all formats?<br /> This is a huge project and my computer and software are at least 10 years old. I have been reluctant to buy a whole new outfit without know what is needed. Any help?</p>

[chris_williams19]

<p>Wow... I would love to know what those pictures are. Do take care of them and if you do manage to get them uncurled, I'd be fantastic to see some of them. That period in Germany was a very interesting time and there may be some historical value to some of those pictures.</p>

[fmueller]

<p>Just out of curiosity, can you read the inventory in the box cover? German is my native language, but I have a hard time reading Sütterlin, so I can read some of that, but not all.</p>

[christopher_ward2]

<p>Thank you all for your thoughts. For now the box of film is stored in the freezer...no boom. It seems that 7 of the 25 are non "Safety" films. I am still conflicted about how to handle them. My archivist side says keep them together and uncut but my photographer side want them cut and put into pages for viewing. Then we come to the "Historical" knot...are random cityscape ,mountain views ,graduations and family gatherings important without context? After 80+ years do these particular images matter? And to whom? <br>

I will dig into how to clean the film rolls and copy some as time and money permit. Maybe with a few glassed of schnapps the handwriting will become clear. The future of my own catalog of banal and personal images has been on my mind of late. What will happen to them when I cross the Styx? Chris </p>

 

[Matthew Currie]

<p>IF the images are from Germany between the world wars, there's at least a possibility that some will show architecture or other art treasures that were lost, as well as overall cityscapes long gone. While they may or may not be of real value, they certainly could be interesting.</p>

[fmueller]

<blockquote>

<p>IF the images are from Germany between the world wars</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The inventory contains a bunch of city names like Frankfurt, Salzburg, Gelsenkirchen, Paderborn, Warburg, and so on. It also mentions events like Julie Marie First Communion, Village Bowling Tournament, and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch%C3%BCtzenfest">Marksmen's Festival</a>. I'd say earth-shattering revelations are unlikely, but interesting nonetheless.</p>

<p>What I find interesting is that almost all films were shot withing a few days - August 28-31. Nine rolls are from August 28 alone. In a time when film was presumably an expensive luxury item, this photographer was using his camera like the kids today are using their iPhones!</p>

[christopher_ward2]

<p>I have taken the dates to be Aug.1929 or Aug.1931 not Aug.29th or Aug.31st. Guessing family/business trips in summer of each year but I could be wrong. I have an F3 ,bellows ,copy attachment and TTL flash unit but two 100' bulk rolls of slow film and chemicals may be too much money right now. Most rolls have a long 3 or 4 frame leader on each end ,tried scanning some with my HP S-20 but the curl jammed it.<br /> Chris</p>

[fmueller]

<p>Ah, that does sound more likely - especially if that entry in the last row is Frankfurt Aug. 32! :-)</p>

[william_vickers1]

<p>There may be institutions or museums in the United States or Germany that would be very interested in archiving this collection for historical purposes. If I were in your position I think I would try to contact reputable historians of this period of German history to see if they have any suggestions or advice along these lines. This will require some research and effort on your part, but could result in a nice outcome.</p>

[Argenticien]

<p>Chris, you might very much want to contact <a href="http://wheelie52.zenfolio.com/">Keith Novak</a>, a prolific poster on Rangefinderforum.com, who faced exactly the same problem two years ago, for advice. On RFF, he posted 16 spellbinding threads (of which the last is <a href="http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96524">this one</a> and each one has a link to the prior one) showing pictures from the rolls. And his initial thread about the rolls in a box, conservation, etc., is <a href="http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94821">here</a>. Your situation is so similar it's eerie.<br>

<em>--Dave</em></p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>Whatever you do, right this instant stop handling this film. Stop playing with it, stop thinking about soaking it in water, stop thinking about trying to copy it. Stop unwinding it and playing with it. Unless you are a professional archivist, set it aside and do absolutely nothing.<br /><br />This might be a worthless pile of somebody's snapshots but it might also be a priceless historical collection that would make you rich or make some museum extremely grateful. there's a huge risk that best-meant attempts to "save" it could ruin it.<br /><br />I would get on the phone today with George Eastman House, or maybe the National Archive, any museum dealing with German history. Maybe the U.S. Holocaust Museum (if the families or neighborhoods in the photogs are Jewish in pre-war Germany, the Holocause Museum would most definitely be interested). Maybe also a major auction house like Christie's or Southeby's.<br /><br />You need to establish what yo have here and whether it is valuable to anyone. Then let a professional take care of the restoration work. You don't want to hear "we could have given you a million dollars for this but they've been so damaged by what you did to them they're worthless now."<br /><br /></p>

[wblynch]

<p>I have a minilab film scanner that auto feeds whole rolls of 35mm. I used it to scan a found roll from 1939.</p>

<p>I would suggest you try a local (trusted) minilab for initial scans. The automated scanners can deal with curled film much better than flatbed or other consumer scanners.</p>

<p>Plus they take only about 5 minutes per roll.</p>

<p>It would be less risky than cutting or uncurling the film.</p>

<p>After baseline scans have been made, you can attempt to uncurl the rolls with less fear of losing them altogether.</p>

 

[christopher_ward2]

<p>Soaking to uncurl ,cutting and repackaging are out. I simply do not know enough about 80 year old film. Lots of fading ,foxing and yellowing. And a Mini-Lab tech would give me nightmares. Researching online for what to do with the whole lot. If I choose to copy them I will post some results.<br>

Chris</p>

[chris_williams19]

<p>I'll be the first to admit that I wouldn't know what to do with a box of film like you've got, but I think I would follow <strong>Craig's </strong>suggestion and start making some phone calls and shooting some emails around. It's not like a few more days or weeks waiting for some answers is going to matter to this film. :)<br>

The photos may only be family snapshots, but even so, I would really want to make sure that I didn't do anything to hose them up.</p>

[christopher_ward2]

<p>I have been in contact with the local archive/historical department and by phone and E-mail to George Eastman House ,Rochester NY.<br>

Chris</p>