Shutter Speeds

[joe_cormier]

<p> I plan on shooting an upcoming horse raise. I want to shoot at either 1/2000 sec. or 1/4000 sec. Currently using a D300s. Will the faster shutter speed negatively effect the quality of the image in relation to noise , color, etc. As always thanks in advance. Joe </p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>The only way in which a very high shutter speed will impact the look of your photo is if you have to do something else to compromise the quality in order to maintain the exposure you need. Two possibilities come to mind:<br /><br />1) ISO. If you have to raise ISO very high in order to make the camera sensitive enough to create a good exposure at 1/2000th, then you'll pay the price in what always happens at very high ISO settings. Which is to say, at very high ISOs, you lose dynamic range and detail, and increase noise, and to mitigate those two things, have to really nail exposure as perfectly as you can to avoid pushing things around in post production. That said, newer cameras are getting better every day when it comes to working at higher ISOs. Way better.<br /><br />2) Aperture. When you shorten the exposure time, you have to gather more light some other way. Usually, that means using a faster/wider aperture. You might find you have to open up to f/1.8 on a lens that allows you to shoot that fast. But if you're using a kit zoom lens that can't shoot any faster than f/5.6 at longer focal lengths (say, 200mm), then you have a built-in limit that can only be fixed by increasing ISO to make the camera more sensitive. And if you <em>do</em> have a faster lens, you'll be faced with another laws-of-physics problem: shallow depth of field. The wider that aperture, the less likely is is you'll get the horse's head <em>and</em> the jockey's head in focus at the same time. And more importantly, shallow DoF means it's that much more critical that you're getting the focus right in the first place - a real challenge when you're dealing with a horse running at/past you at 30mph.<br /><br />Of course, if you're shooting in bright sunlight, you'll have no problem! You can raise that shutter speed, use a moderate ISO, and still not have to have your lens wide open. When everything else is satisfactory that way, the higher shutter speed will only IMPROVE the quality of your shot, because it minimizes camera motion blur (from you moving the camera as you shoot), and will freeze the horses's motion, as well. Sometimes, a slightly slower shutter speed is actually desireable, because it helps to convey that sense of motion as you pan with the horse.</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<blockquote>

<p>Will the faster shutter speed negatively effect the quality of the image in relation to noise , color, etc.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Only if you have to raise the camera's ISO sensitivity to get there. As long as there's enough light it really doesn't matter how high the shutter speed goes. OTOH, using shutter speeds longer than about a 1/4 second is a different matter, and you will see a drop in quality if you have to use those kinds of speed.</p>

<p>BTW, "effect" is a noun; as in "special effect". "Affect" is the verb - as in "the amount of light affects the exposure needed". </p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Just because I have it handy, here's an example shot under a bright, but slightly cloudy day at a steeplechase. That day, I shot from 1/640th to 1/2500th, depending on a lot of the variables mentioned above.</p><div></div>

[Matt Laur]

<p>And that's one of the problems with shooting out in bright sun. Sure, you get to stop down your lens and use high shutter speeds without needing a really high ISO ... but you also have the baggage that comes with bright sun: baked whites, and hard, contrasty shadows.<br /><br />Below is a shot over in the shadows of a tree line. Great! Less in the way of high-contrast sun baking the scene ... but that also means less light. So the shutter had to slow down to 1/640th. The aperture and ISO are exactly the same as the shot above.</p><div></div>

[ShunCheung]

<p>The D300S has a base ISO of 200. Even under bright daylight, sunny 16 means you can use f16 @ 1/200, or f4 @ 1/3200.</p>

<p>So when you are talking about 1/2000 to 1/4000, you need around f4 under the brightest sun. Otherwise, you need f2.8 or you'll be raising the ISO. Depending on how picky you are, the D300S should very much be ok at ISO 40; ISO 800 gets a bit iffy.</p>

<p>Depending on the exact situation (direction of the horse, the exact action, etc.), 1/1000 sec maybe fast enough to freeze action in a horse raise. 1/2000 sec would be much safer. Matt has some good examples.</p>

[joe_cormier]

<p>Thanks to all, I learned something today. Also will use verb from now on. Joe</p>

[david_carroll4]

<p>RJ - "effect" is also a verb - for example - "to effect a change" - to cause a change to occur. To further complicate things, "affect" is also a noun, used to describe outward show of emotion. English really is an illogical language.</p>

[barryhaugen]

<p>Joe,<br>

Dont be so focused on the numbers of photography. 1/2000 or 1/4000 is fine if your in super bright sun but what happens if its dark and overcast? Are you not going to take any pictures? At speeds that fast you can freeze a top fuel dragster going 300MPH, I dont know of any horse that will go that fast. Lighting conditions dictate your camera settings as you well know, but you can manipulate alot of things to make brilliant photos. For freeze action shots perpendicular to your focal plan you need very fast shutter speeds and if lighting conditions dont allow that high speeds change your angle slightly. 45degrees requires a much slower shutter speed to freeze action. Head on is even slower. The D300s is very capable of crystal clear shots at high shutter speed but if you increase ISO to get those high shutter speed you will sacrifice quality. Dont forget Photography is Art not mathematics. There is nothing wrong with motion blur, it implies motion. A race car going 100MPH shot at a super high shutter speed looks no different than a car that is parked at a low shutter speed. A race horse at full race speed looks very little different than a horse trotting at fast shutter speeds. My main point is dont let the numbers dictate your photos let creativity dictate the numbers.</p>

[orcama60]

<p>You don't need a high speed to have your subject in focus. If you want to "freeze" the action, any speed above 1/500 will stop action. Regarding ISO, if you are shooting outdoor, ISO 100 should be enough ( or 200 ) max. In daylight, and assuming is not cloudy at all, just pick Aperture as a Mode and your camera will automatically pick the right speed. You can also use the sunny 16 rule to calculate your exposure : f/16 1/125 at ISO 100 ... so f/11 1/250, etc, etc.<br>

Also, if you use the "panning technique", you do not need a high speed and your pic will probably looks much better, more creative. The below pic was taken using the panning technique and as you can see, there is not need for a high speed to isolate your subject and have it in focus. Honestly, there has been a very few cases, that I have had the need to use a very high speed. Most of the time, I use panning. See the picture below.</p><div></div>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>"English really is an illogical language." - Not illogical, just having a great variety of roots; Greco-Roman, Germanic, Anglo-saxon, French, Norse, Gaelic, Arabic, Hindi..... you name it. That's probably why it's become a Lingua Franca (everywhere except France!).</p>

[orcama60]

<p>Here is another pic but this time I shot it using Aperture mode and let the camera pick the speed.</p><div></div>

[mike_halliwell]

<p><em>...Dont forget Photography is Art not mathematics. There is nothing wrong with motion blur, it implies motion...</em></p>

<p>Not sure I agree with quite such a blanket statement. Photography is probably one of the most technically demanding <em><strong>Arts</strong></em> to get right that I know.</p>

<p>....And to go beyond that, there are quite a few technical photographers (myself included) where ART is a SIN. That doesn't mean I don't take artistic pictures, I have a fair handle on both aspects of the discipline.</p>

<p>I think most (ALL?) good photographers need to know a degree of both. The more difficult things you do, the more of the technical aspect you need to know.</p>

<p>If any of my horses or riders are motion blurred, they might be art, but they don't want to buy them!</p>

<p><em>EDIT.</em> 1/500 is <strong>not enough</strong> to Freeze' action. Above 1/1000 for horses....... 1/1250 - 1/1600 is always preferred. 1/2000>1/4000 is probably overkill.</p>

[frank_skomial]

<p>Practice panning technique for your sport, to make it more of an art than a technique.</p>

<p>The tiger jump shown by Maurice was made with 1/100 sec, yet it looks good, more dynamic than pictures taken with very fast shutter.</p>

[michael_bradtke]

<p>I have to agree with Mike H<br>

I do shoot some motion blur stuff on an occasion at the horse shows and to date I have sold one of them. Riders look at it and say things like "cool" and then move on to the next one.<br>

Depending on the riding discipline different shutter speeds can be used. With Dressage I can let them drop down around 1/500 But I do have to keep an eye one the gate they are in and the breed of the horse. Some horses hooves move at light speed even when they are in a "slower" gate.<br>

Jumping of any kind and western speed events need the highest shutter speed I can get. The faster the better the western game riders love to see the clumps of dirt frozen in the air.<br>

For a horse race on a track you want thinks to be as sharp as possible so the highest shutter speed you can manage would be the way to go.</p>

[absent]

<p>Here is a diagram which might help illustrate the tradeoffs involved.</p>

<p>This shows the possible combinations of ISO, aperture and shutter speed which will give a "correct" exposure at LV 15, which is approximately the same as "Sunny 16".<br>

I have chosen a minimum aperture (left dashed boundary line) of f/5.6 to go with the kit lens. Maximum aperture is f/16 to avoid diffraction (right dashed line).<br>

Maximum and minimum ISO are 800 and 100 (horizontal dashed lines). These obviously will vary with your camera. These ISO and aperture boundaries define "THE BOX" that settings must remain in for these conditions.<br>

The slanting colored lines represent various shutter speeds. As you can see the line marked "8000" crosses at the left upper corner of the box. So you could use a shutter speed as fast as 1/8000 - but ONLY at f/5.6 and ISO 800. You could go as slow as 1/125, but only at f/16 and ISO 100.<br>

1/1000 should be more than adequate, and would let you use any aperture in the range.<br>

1/500 would probably be adequate, and would let you stop down to f/8 at ISO 100 for best image quality (least noise).</p>

<p>Hope this is enlightening rather than confusing.</p>

<div></div>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>Water splash jumps sell very well with each drop as a 3D blob reminiscent of fluids in space. That seems to take >1/1600</p>

<p>Michael B's phrase of <em>...'the highest shutter speed I can get' </em> is indeed the way of things here in the not-so-bright UK :-) On dim, afternoon events, I'm often running @ ISO 1600 @ f4 @ 1/800.... and that's barely enough! Noise and weak colours start getting troublesome above 1600 ISO on the JPEG's that sell on the day. (D700 + 70-200 VRII)</p>

<p> </p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>Joe C, what's your kit?</p>

[orcama60]

<p>I do agree with the concept that any pic depends on what the photographer wants to achieve in the photo. The pic of the cheetah that I posted was on purpose shot with the panning method and even the tail and the back side of the animal is blurry, it does imply motion and that is what I wanted to achieve. The rest is in focus. 1/500 of a second is more than enough to stop or freeze some action not all of them; perhaps I did not explain that if you want to freeze some action, you must start at least with 1/500 of a second. Less than that is not recommended ... UNLESS ... you want your pic to show some blur, but strictly talking about speed, you should start with at least 1/500. </p>

[barryhaugen]

What I meant by photography is art and not math is that what makes a good image is composition, i.e., lines, shape,

form, texture,etc., and its not the math. People don't walk into photography gallery and look at a photo and say wow

look at that f4@1/2000's. They say wow that's a beautiful horse. Yes more you understand the technical side of

photography the more consistent your are. The original post was the intent of going to an event with a preconceived

set of shutter speeds by doing that you limit what images you can take.what if the light is not there? Do Quit and go

home? For example a documentary photographer shooting in the slums of India does not deside on the plane ride over

decide that he/she is going to shoot at1/300s. They think about what stories they want to tell and how best to

communicate that story not their camera settings. There are lot of "technical" photographers who contribute here on a

regular basis who have all the best and latest equipment and know all the technical specs of every piece of camera

equipment ever made but look at there photo galleries and their images are less than average. All though the images

are technically correct they lack basic composition and emotion. Not that mine are award winning photos but I try to

focus on composition and story telling. The numbers are what I look at after to learn from and improve.

[keith reeder]

<blockquote>

<p>The tiger jump shown by Maurice</p>

</blockquote>

<p>OT, but it's a Cheetah, Frank.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>what makes a good image is composition, ie lines, shape, form, texture,etc, and its not the math.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Actually Barry, to a large extent, composition <em>is</em> math(s) - good composition breaks down very well into mathematical formulae.</p>

<p>Now, <em>content</em> isn't, but composition? Yep, maths all the way.</p>