david_ross13 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 <p>Bob, thank you for your candid response. I wish, in retrospect, I would've had the forethought to follow your advice when asked to park the car. ; )</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagesax Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 "540 images" Hey David, that seems fine to me. I would say thats a very good amount of pics for 3 plus hours of work. If the couple doesn't like that, well you did your very best and you should be very happy that you have such high standards to give them 60 fantastic shots out of the 540. You really care about only showing them your top images. I didn't know you took that many. Seems like they should be happy now that they have all of your files. There's not much more that you can do to make them happy. You let them know ahead of time what your experience was. Glad you clarified the amount of shots you took. I feel a heck of a lot better. You did your job. I also think you need to continue to photograph weddings. Forgive my response of only taking so few photo's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_ross13 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 <p>Yes, when all was said and done, I wanted to give them 80 fully edited images. Those 80 turned into 133 images when adding B&W and other effects to the original color photos. These were the best. I post-processed these photos, took out every wrinkle, and did everything to make the couple look like models. Now with all of the other images, they are going to be unhappy in comparision but that is not my problem. They wanted all of the images. That is what they will get. I even took a few sequences of photos that I was going to stitch together into panoramas. I'm no longer going to spend the time doing this. For $1200, I have spent around 300 hours editing photos and designing the CD folio for this couple and they are not happy. I'm just hoping this nightmare will be over soon. I will never again work without a contract. I've learned my lesson. I also will not push the shutter release button as freely as before either. If I want a tighter portfolio, I will take less photos and be more deliberate. Thank you, Bob, for all your input. I will keep everyone updated here.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_ross13 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 <p>Doh! Guys, now I have one more problem. How do I burn 540 images to one CD? I already reduced the file size from 36mp to 18mp but at 300dpi that is still 6GB of information! A CD only holds 1GB of information (another reason to only have 80 fully edited photos on CD). How do you burn your photos to CD?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personalphotos Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 <p>DVD and reduce the file size further to fit the size limit a DVD can hold. They don't need 18MB Jpegs for anything.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 <p>Actually, 2 DVDs or 1 double sided DVD.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathangardner Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 <p>Looks like you were in way over your head. I'd refund all the money minus the cost of equipment rentals. I would not give them all photos, but I'd give them all acceptable photos and tell the groom he has everything except out of focus photos and photos of the floor or ceiling. Explain that you warned him that you weren't a professional and this is the chance he took. Give him his refund and chalk it up as a learning experience. Sincerely apoogize and tell them that since they wouldn't sign a contract there's not much else you can do. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccosh Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 <p>No disrespect Nathan, but if you had read the post you would have read</p> <blockquote> <p>$1100 went to the cost of camera equipment for two weeks. I spent another $500 taking one on one lessons from a pro for two days with this equipment.</p> </blockquote> <p> David you were not way in over your head you were working for a couple of jerks that are just being as awkward as they can be. Move on and chalk this up as experience all be it bad experience. <br> <br> Good luck with the outcome and with your future photography.<br> <br> John</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagesax Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Totally agree with John and Nadine. They are jerks. I'd reduce the size of the images to about 5 or 6 megabyte, jpegs. Thats fine for making very large enlargements. You keep surprising me here! All of that work you did in photoshop, making the people look great., B&W's. To be honest I only do touch ups with some of the romantics, formals, mainly shots involving the bride and close-ups. I don't mess with full length. I usually only convert to B&W the romantic shots, and a few others during the wedding. Maybe a total of around 20. I also play around with vignetting on about 10 or so images. You are surely a hard worker and very aware of giving the couples only your very best. Keep up your very high standards. Who knows, you may be writing books someday on weddings/ photoshop, helping the new photographers get into the business with these high standards. Also get rid of the people blinking, added to what Nadine suggested. Let us know how this turns out. A lot of people have posted offering you some great advice. Can you post an image or 2? You really have me interested so I'm sure several others are too. Let us know how this turns out. A lot of people have posted offering you some great advice. Can you post an image or 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_p17 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 <p>Join Professional Photographers of America...PPA. They have FREE Indemnity Insurance.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathangardner Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 <p>Josh,</p> <p>I read the original post. Forgive me for not reading all of the 75 posts above mine. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_ross13 Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 <p>Hi Bob. Sure, I would love to send you a few images from the wedding. As you know, I posted photos here but I requested they be removed for fear of further reprisal. I sent you a private message. I hope to hear from you. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_hillman2 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 <p>David,<br> I wouldn't consider myself a pro, I've taken no professional classes, I just learned from my amateur father. I was the photographer of high school and college (a PAC 10 school) newpaper and yearbook, worked for a budget wedding studio a couple of years while in college, then later did moonlighting wedding photography on my own for several years.<br> I can't believe they paid someone who admittedly never took a wedding before that much, David you should be sales! Part of what you learn from experience is taking charge now and then to do the formal and traditional shots. I had an hour so meeting weeks before to find out what photos they want, and what the mood will be. I had a check off list of photos they wanted with some sort of priority (must have - only if the occasion arises - do don't you dare). This also gives other important info as to family attending, names, grandparents, parent marital status, etc to avoid embarrassments.<br> At <em>first</em> I didn't charge anything beyond film/processing, but I already owned my equipment. Then I gave them double prints (free on wednesday's) and the neg's. I requested that they pay me what they thought the photography was worth, by golly, they all paid more than I would have dreamed asking.<br> As far as giving them all the shots, I did except the floor, way out of focus, totally wrong exposure shots. I figured that one shot may be the only pic of an aunt or uncle etc. before they died the following week.<br> Also, I've been told, and have tried unsuccessfully, don't photograph friends and families weddings.<br> I do think you had a bad experience, I found them rare. I think its odd they had you park the car and started the festivities without you present shows that photography wasn't a high priority to them, then come back with such demands. These people are off base. I mostly found people were on their best Sunday behavior, the women extremely beautified (most, even B&G mothers, wanted to dance), food was great and plentiful, usually free drinks or they bought it for you, and at the end they PAID <strong>you</strong>. Could ask for more in a moonlight job.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 <p>Sorry to hear about your situation, David. I've photographed weddings as gifts for family and friends and it's always been a pleasant experience. But I've never done so professionally and never will.</p> <p>I must say, you've bent over backward and then some. I'm pretty patient but my limit would have been exceeded the moment the fellow became threatening. My philosophy is to never pick fights but never back down from bullies. At that point I'd have given them whatever prints I'd done, called the police, gotten a restraining order and made it unmistakably clear that our business and personal relationships were permanently finished.</p> <p>Best of luck to you. With your patience and ability to deal with very difficult situations you may have what it takes to make a go of it as a pro.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leo_tam1 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 <p>At least you now have one helluva portfolio<br> Best wishes and let us know how the situation turns out</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve m smith Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 <blockquote> <p>Also, I've been told, and have tried unsuccessfully, don't photograph friends and families weddings.</p> </blockquote> <p>I have only photographed weddings for friends and there have been no problems.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard_bailey Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 <p>Hi David.</p> <p>I've shot a couple weddings. I have read and learned from personal experience that prior to agreeing to shoot a couple's wedding, <strong>it is important to meet with them to determine if you are a fit for each other</strong>. In other words, it is essential for the photographer to predetermine if you will be happy spending a very long day working with this couple.</p> <p>It takes a lot of time, emotional and physical energy to shoot a wedding. If you and the couple like each other and work together cooperatively and are reasonable, this long day will be enjoyable and rewarding.</p> <p>I strongly recommend that you eat a huge meal before heading out to shoot a wedding and keep some snacks in your camera bag. Being able to sit down to eat during a wedding is not likely to happen. It has been my experience that when I am eating, I will leave my plate to capture a moment with my lens.</p> <p>Howard</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 <p> <em>Oh BTW, the Nikon manual clearly shows which lenses are suited to the D800. The 50mm f1.4G isn't one of them.</em></p> <p>This isn't at all true. Nikon has listed <em>some</em> of the lenses which give <em>enhanced resolution</em> with the D800. They didn't list all, it's just suggestive. The 50/1.4G is a fine lens, and under no circumstances does the D800 deliver a <em>lower resolution</em> than their lower-MP FX cameras. It's just a question of <em>how much</em> higher resolution the image will have, and that of course depends on the lens.</p> <p><em>There is no way you could have told a story with just 160 images.</em></p> <p>I have to say I have the opposite opinion. Photographic stories have been told of vastly more complex events and topics than a wedding in far fewer images by world class photographers in LIFE, National Geographic, GEO, etc. a host of magazines who specialize in high quality photo stories. If you need more than 20-30 images to tell the story of a wedding or a story on any particular topic you're either not trying hard, or you have difficulty with being concise. Scientists routinely have to summarize their papers that may have taken years of work in a few sentences. Why would a wedding photographer not be able to tell the story of one day in a few dozen images? 160 images is an absurdly high number of images to spend telling the story of a day, be it any day. Whenever I see wedding albums where a significantly higher number of images is delivered (than 100-200), many images are essential copies of each other with only slight variations, instead of visually separate works of art, as it should be. If you have two images of the same person in the same part of the event, then only one of them can stay. If you have used a composition for a group of people, that composition can only be used for one such image in the set, otherwise it's repetitive and redundant, not unique. If you have a child running on the ail getting out of control during the ceremony, you capture him or her in one image together with the other guests' reactions, not with separate images (since if the images are separate, how will the viewer know what the people are reacting to?) If you have two portraits of the couple in one location and in the same light, you choose the best one image instead of letting the client be confused about which of two similar images to use. If an image is a "good shot" but can be removed without the story suffering (i.e. it's not a cornerstone image), you remove it to keep things concise. You leave the classics in and that way you can get away with fewer images. The shorter the story is in number of images the more effectively it can be communicated and the less likely it is that the viewer gets bored. And that's what this is all about - telling the story of the day in such a way that no viewer is bored by the presentation, and they will all be excited and in awe, asking for more. Even those who couldn't care less about weddings in general.</p> <p>It's like in a good restaurant the food is expensive but there is only a very small quantity of it, because you shouldn't eat too much. 2000 images would be akin to going to an "all you can eat" pizza place.</p> <p>To the OP: I think the best course of action is to contact the police about the physical harrassment and if the client pursues legal action regarding your services then hire a lawyer to whom you explain the facts of the case, in all the detail that you can. I think you have fulfilled your obligations and should not have to make further amendments unless demanded by court.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve m smith Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 <blockquote> <p>If you need more than 20-30 images to tell the story of a wedding or a story on any particular topic you're either not trying hard, or you have difficulty with being concise. </p> </blockquote> <p> <br> <br> </p> <blockquote> <p>Whenever I see wedding albums where a significantly higher number of images is delivered (than 100-200), many images are essential copies of each other with only slight variations</p> </blockquote> <p> <br> I agree entirely.<br> <br> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccosh Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 <p>Ilkka, I totally disagree with you and so would all my clients. couples don't want a summery of their wedding day they want every detail recorded so in years to come they can look back and re-live their day. The wedding album is designed for them and them alone. </p> <p> </p> <blockquote> <p>Scientists routinely have to summarize their papers that may have taken years of work in a few sentences.</p> </blockquote> <p> I am sure the Scientist that has worked for years has huge case notes to look back on. These case notes are the wedding album not his summery. If we follow your argument then we only need one photo to tell the story. The couple kissing at the ceremony. This one photo tells the whole story does it not. <br> <br> My clients hire me because I offer them a photographic record of their wedding day that they can look back on in years to come. If your customers are happy with 20 - 30 images then good on you. <br> <br> John</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_soulnier Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 <p>If you shoot a wedding with a journalistic approach, you don't need much more than a few times of events. you show up and capture their wedding like an outsider, and really feel the energy from it.<br /><br />I think photographers that feel they need to know your family history, are just trying to get into the head of the bride, and make her feel that you are almost family, you know so much about them.<br /> <br />no thanks, that's not my style to try and get more money out of them...<br /><br />I have seen where some photographers list the price per hour for consultation. <br /><br />Give the Bride and Groom stunning images to cherish, and stop putting so much effort into selling yourself to them.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_hillman2 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 <blockquote> <p>I think photographers that feel they need to know your family history, are just trying to get into the head of the bride, and make her feel that you are almost family, you know so much about them.<br /><br />no thanks, that's not my style to try and get more money out of them...</p> </blockquote> <p>I don't think so. Many times there are relatives and family friends. Its hard to tell the difference. Knowing ahead of time the bride's favorite relative will be there will give you the heads up to get their picture together.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_ross13 Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 <p>I just wanted to give an update to everyone here. Last week, I texted the groom and told him that his CD folio was finished. Perhaps because he knew he stepped over the line by threatening me, he sent his wife over to the restaurant (where I work) and she picked it up. She was rather cold and I could not tell whether she liked the CD folio or not. With 545 images on the CD, each was just 2 mp in size. They wanted all of their photos on a CD so I gave it to them. I am now finished with this project. I have made a lot of mistakes, especially not working with a contract. Thank you all for your support. I have learned a lot and it is time to move forward. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personalphotos Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 <p>Good to hear there was very little drama over the final delivery. Hopefully there will be no further emails or contact and you can put this behind you. Not surprised he sent her to do it, typical of a bully to get someone else to do their bidding. I wouldn't worry about her 'coldness', she's got to live with him, not you....</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard_bailey Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 <p>David, thanks very much for the update.<br> I would love to have a look at your CD folio.<br> Howard</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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