Alternative of Nikkor 24-70 for D800E - Contax Zeiss, Leica R or....?

[andrey_popatanasov]

<p>My venerable photo-comrade Nikon 24-70 broke too badly at the base recently...<br />So unwillingly I'm looking to replace it with another zoom in the range 24-70 (or 28-70) or similar that can perform equaly or even better on my new D800E. But I'd like it to be more rigid and a bit physicaly shorter so that it can withstand the stress while traveling. Yes, I can go with bunch of primes but I'd like to have the framing convenience of the zoom lens while in travel.<br />I'm ready to sacrifice some speed for that - may be F3.5 or F4 and I don't mind manual focusing.<br />Alhough Nikon has made 24-120/F4G for that purpose it has mixed performance according to the reviews and I'd like to have "pixel-peeping" details - one of the reasons to get D800E and not D800.<br /> Sigma's are out of question and the new Tamron 24-70 (for Canon) also seems can't beat Nikon optically, plus it's even bigger and less rigid.<br /> <br />So the next candidates are from Contax Zeiss and Leica R land, which are not too familiar to me, but several companies offer conversion to other mounts for them.<br />Any sugestions and recommendations about which zoom can replace and outperform in sharpness, contrast and with good flare resistance Nikon 24-70mm F2.8G are greatly welcomed.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<p>Any Leica-R glass will be stop-down metering on your D800E only - maybe too much of a price to pay?<br /> <br /> For what it is worth, Leica made the following zooms for the range you are considering: <br /> Vario-Elmar 28-70/3,5-4,5<br /> Vario-Elmar 28-90/2,8-4,5 <br /> and with a more limited range:<br /> Vario-Elmar 35-70/3,5<br /> Vario-Elmar 35-70/4,0 <br /> Vario-Elmarit 35-70/2,8<br /> (not sure which ones, if any, can have their mount converted to Nikon F via leitax). I am not familiar enough with the Leica-R zooms to recommend one either.<br /> <br /> And at least for the time being, I am not aware that Zeiss currently makes a zoom that fits the Nikon F-mount. I read about one that was adapted (though not easily): <big>Vario-Sonnar 3,3-4,0/28-85mm</big><br /> <br /> First and foremost - have a look at the new Nikkor 24-85/3.5-4.5 AF-S VR; initial reports are quite favorable but I doubt it will be mechanically better than the 24-70/2.8. Then, of course, there is the "beast" Nikkor 28-70/2.8.<br /> <br /> For what its worth, I strongly doubt that you will find a pixel-peeping optical equal to the 24-70 and I am surprised that this "pro" lens isn't up to the rigors of travel. If that monster isn't - than what lens will be?</p>

<p>Maybe consider a set of primes consisting of 28/1.8G, 50/1.8G, and 85/1.8G. Or the more pricey alternative 24/1.4, 35/1.4 and 85/1.4? Zeiss makes lenses of similar focal length and cost as the high-priced Nikon offerings - albeit there is no f/1.4 shorter than 35mm.</p>

[jose_angel]

<p>I don`t have a based opinion but sicerely, I doubt Leica or Zeiss have a lens (zoom) with equal, less likely with superior overall performance, in the range of the 24-70 (primes aside).</p>

<p>Personally, I find the solution on combining different lenses; a good standard zoom (24-70), a compact one for travel (24-120), a longer prime (or zoom) for the, maybe, 70 to 105 range.</p>

<p>As Dieter says, the new 24-85 could be an interesting choice (smaller, cheaper) instead of the 24-120. We are waiting for the first impressions yet.</p>

<p>And if you`re looking for maximum performance, I`d not discard Nikon primes; don`t know you, but depending on the situation, I can be perfectly fine with a couple lenses, say a 35 and 85/90, 35 and 105, 24 and 35... nothing better than the "creative" and autofocus "holy prime trinity". In fact, I rarely use zooms for my film cameras; but obviously, our "chip" must be changed.</p>

[richard_thomas9]

<p>The old Nikon 35-70mm f/2.8 perhaps? Inexpensive and small but may not be wide enough for you. </p>

[luis_g]

<p>My vote goes to the 24-120 and quit pixel-peeping.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<p>First impressions on the new 24-85 by photographer Steve Simon are here: http://www.flickr.com/groups/nikondigitallearningcenter/discuss/72157630065573047/</p>

[elliot1]

<p>How did your lens break and what exactly broke on it?</p>

[dbcooper]

<blockquote>

<p>My venerable photo-comrade Nikon 24-70 broke too badly at the base recently...I'd like it to be more rigid and a bit physicaly shorter so that it can withstand the stress while traveling.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If your lens broke at the base while traveling, you don't need a different lens, you need a different travel case. Any lens will have the same vulnerability. If it was mounted on the camera when it broke, you'll want to get the body mounting flange checked for sure. </p>

[andrey_popatanasov]

<p>Thanks for the find Deiter, I'll have an eye on this newcomer in Nikon family when the reviews become available...Although Nikon keeps tight division between their Pro-line and the non-Pro one.</p>

<p>So we'll see what kind of compromises it has - if they are acceptable may be this can be the way to go....It's twice lighter and nearly 40% shorter than it's big brother , so even if it's made mostly of plastic it can be less vulnerable to the damage that got the former one.</p>

<p>@Elliot: It fell when on the tripod - may be three-four feet from the ground and became two...I still wait for an repair estimate from Nikon.</p>

<p>As for the old Nikon 35-70mm f/2.8 - as I hear it seems to have quite flaring, and some corner softness...Although I like it's tank-like build and less weight...Similarly is the "beast" Nikkor 28-70/2.8 - although it has the advantage of dedicated aperture ring, which can be a "live-saver" if the electronics for some reason stops in the field - you can still use easily your photo-tool.</p>

<p>@Jose: I guess you are right about Leica and Contax since they are several years older design and technology than the 2007th child Nikon 24-70, but still I felt like to place the question since everyone adores the excellence some of their masterpieces like the 50mm Noctilux, hoping that may be there's unknown and useful to me zoom jewel in their line up.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>everyone adores the excellence some of their masterpieces like the 50mm Noctilux</p>

</blockquote>

<p>mostly those who've never shot with one, I suppose. With Leica gear, it is nearly impossible to separate the myth from the reality. I recall fairly elaborate lab and field tests in a German photo magazine in the Eighties that time and again failed to reveal the alleged superiority of Leica glass over that of other manufacturers. That's not to say that Leica didn't usually play at or near the top. But even back then, Leica was good at playing the marketing game - selling Minolta lenses that have undergone "Leica angel dust treatment" at a substantial markup - just like they are now doing with Panasonic (and lately an Olympus EVF).</p>

[elliot1]

<p>I suggest you wait to hear back on the repair cost before you do anything. I also you suggest you stock with that lens because you are using it with the D800e.</p>

[SCL]

<p>The old Leica lenses (R lenses) are good, but as mentioned above you would have to use stop-down metering. Modern glass, IMHO is generally just as good. The Leica glass tended to be optimized for use wide open or perhaps closed down 1 stop. Unless you are producing very large prints, I doubt you could distinguish between shots taken with Leica R glass and top of the line Nikon or Canon glass....having used all 3, I can tell you at less than very large sized enlargements, I couldn't. After almost 30 years using primarily Leica lenses, I finally shifted most of my work to Nikon lenses, and am thoroughly satisfied.</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>I think you should just get it repaired or if unrepairable, buy another copy; you are unlikely to find another zoom in this focal range class which is better.</p>

[aidjoy]

<p>Wanted to chime in here. The 24-70 G is actually prone to breaking at the mount. If you do a google search you can see for yourself. Mine snapped while traveling in carry-on luggage. I replaced it with a 50mm prime and called it good. I can't have lenses that snap in half- period. Sorry I can't address the OP question about what zoom would be a good alternative. Just wanted to clear things up for the respondents that addressed the actual breakage of the lens.</p>

[dan_brown4]

<p>I'm going to pre-order that 24-85 VR to replace my 28-105.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>See this post by Bjorn Rorslett: <a href="00TwV2">http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00TwV2</a></p>

<blockquote>

<p>My personal 24-70 sees a lot of use. Like the other recent "pro" lenses it is designed to break at the bayonet mount if getting a severe blow so as not to damage the camera. Replace the mount and the signal cable within and you're good to go - a Nikon repair shop does this in 15 minutes (I have timed the operation).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Nikon USA sent me a test sample of the new 24-85mm AF-S VR. It seems to be a good mid-range consumer zoom. It reminds me the old non-VR version I used to have, but the lens does not extend as much when zoom to 85mm.</p>

<p>However, if you are used to the 24-70mm/f2.8 AF-S, just get that fixed. It is among the best zooms around.</p>

[dan_brown4]

<p>Shun; did you do any testing of the 24-84 VR? Maybe you already posted a review?<br>

Please let us know.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Dan, I received the 24-85 VR yesterday (Thursday) and took some snapshots in the office. It is made in China with your typical consumer zoom construction quality. The few images I captured with it on a D700 look fine, but I need to gain some more experience with it before I'll post comments. Eventually photo.net will have a review.</p>

<p>I am planning to make a side-by-side comparison of the 24-70mm/f2.8 AF-S, 24-120mm/f4 AF-S VR and 24-85mm/f3.5-4.5 AF-S VR on a D700 and D800/D800E.</p>

[dan_brown4]

<p>Thanks Shun, I'll look forward to your review.</p>

<p>I feel sure enough that this lens will work for me, that I have pre-ordered one.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Dan, any idea when you'll get yours? Since Nikon has review samples available, usually stores will have them soon as well. When you get yours, please post your impressions here as well.</p>

<p>As long as your expectations are right, I think you will be happy with this new lens. If you mainly shoot at f5.6, f8, this lens is fine. However, under indoor available-light situations, the 24-70mm/f2.8 clearly has its advantages, so do those fixed f1.4, f1.8 lenses.</p>

<p>I like my 24-120mm/f4 AF-S VR and use it with flash indoors. Clearly a 5x zoom has more optical compromises, but I prefer its longer range on the telephoto end.</p>

[dan_brown4]

<p>Don't know the time frame, I did an on-line order. I have heard late June for availability?</p>

<p>The VR is the biggest factor for me. I am replacing my 28-105/3.5-4.5, so the aperture is a wash. I did a careful comparison between my 70-300 VR and my 80-200/2.8 when shooting hand held. I found that I consistently get sharper images with the VR lens. Of course, where f2.8 is needed, or when using a tripod, the 80-200 wins easily. </p>

<p>For walk-about, casual events, and vacations, the 24-85 VR and 70-300 VR are going to pretty much cover everything I need (maybe toss a 60 Micro in the bag).</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>When the 24-85 and 18-300 were announced last week, Nikon USA told us that they will be available around June 28.</p>

[andrey_popatanasov]

<p>@Mike, Shun: I guess you are right about the easy-breakage design at the mount... <br />I found the service manual for Nikon 24-70 and form what I see, I can say that the lens base has very poor mechanical design (if not on purpose)...Nearly 40% from the circle of the main tube base consists of approx. 3mm thin "arc" of duralluminium to which 2 of the screws (out of 5) are attached less than 2mm in depth...<br />And this base is supposed to hold firmly approx. 2 pounds (1kg) lens during thousands over thousands photo-shots and intense professional use...Plus add that the lens's weight-center is closer to the front which makes the lens-camera system quite unbalanced and thus prone to slippery and accidents (for comparison Micro Nikkor 70-180 of the same length and weight has more evenly distribution of the weight plus a tripod collar)...That said now I feel a kind of lucky it served me so long without accidents...<br />Anyway, the lens can hardly be surpassed optically by the competitors, so it will stay in my bag for serious work... But this discovery and accident will pinch my mind when it's mounted on the camera.<br /><br />@Shun: It will be valuable if you share how the new 24-85 VR compares to it's big brother from f5.6 onward on high MP-body...<br />Today I explored the MTF graphs of the Contax Zeiss midrange-zooms and it seems none can catch Nikon 24-70...<br />So if the new 24-85 is good enough stopped a bit center-to-corner I'll gladly get it for a travel lens.<br /><br />@Dieter: The only indirect Leica-design lens I was able to test was Voightlander Nokton 50mm/f1.1 - it has quite big field curvature at macro settings and thus rather soft out of center for flat objects...But the pictures I've seen from both Noctilux 50/0.95 and this one at normal distances make me look at the upcoming mirrorless full-frame Canon as "pocket" and special purpose camera.</p>

[allan_jamieson2]

<p>The older Nikon 24-85mm AFS lens actually performs very well on my D800. I picked up one a few years ago brand new in box old stock, it is pin sharp. I didn't intend to use it particularly on the D800 but it is not by any means second rate. If you don't want a 24-70mm f2.8 it isn't a bad option and the new VR version could well be better still and a good lightweight option for walkers. I still prefer prime lenses over zoom lenses though.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Here is a size comparison of four mid-range zooms. The two constant f2.8 ones are at their physically the shortest when set to 50mm or so.</p><div></div>