danzel_c Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 just curious to pull people's opinion on the omni bounce outdoors with nothing to bounce light off of, is it really a total waste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frolickingbits Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 <p>Yes. Some people use it as a 'diffuser' with their flash pointed forward, but it really serves no purpose at all outdoors.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william-porter Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 <p>Pretty much. All that light that gets scattered up, down, left and right simply disappears. Totally wasted. It's not bouncing off the clouds and coming back. And the diffuser reduces the amount of light that goes forward to illuminate the subject, so you use up your battery faster. I'm always amused when I see shooters at the Dallas Arboretum with their Gary Fongs and Omnibounces.</p> <p>These devices probably do diffuse the light a little bit — the light that's going forward and not completely wasted. But the effect on the photo is negligible. Better results obtained by either enlarging the artificial light source (say, with diffuser <em>panels</em> or umbrellas) or by using large reflectors. Better results can be obtained fairly easily by simply getting the flash off camera and learning to balance flash and ambient.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_mann1 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 <p>At any shooting distance above a couple of feet outdoors, IMHO, it rarely has any visible effect except for the loss of light and consequent fewer shots out of your battery. As you move into macro territory (ie, in the few inch range) and have a couple of macro flashes mounted to the front of your lens, it can be a convenient light-weight tool to provide a nice extended soft source, remove structure that might be visible in specular reflections, etc. </p> <p>If you want to really scratch your head, be on the lookout for the occasional photographer who has his flash aimed straight up at the sky (without a Stofen or similar modifier). :-) I try to tell myself he must have just come from shooting indoors and forgotten to change the position.</p> <p>Tom M</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 <p>No, not totally, but close.</p> <p>The only reason that makes any sense is if you want to diffuse specular light from the bare headed flash. However, the OmniBounce takes a big bite out of flash power (and you need power outside) where other diffusing modifiers would be less demanding.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_s. Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 <p>Since the omnibounce is the same size as the flash head it has little effect except to scatter the light. Diffusion evens out the light beam but will have virtually no effect on specularity since specularity is a reflection of the light source in the subject and to cut down on the brightness of that reflection you need to make the light source bigger. For instance if you make it twice the area you will lower the specular reflections with one stop.</p> <p>A better solution than an omnibounce if one just wanted to even out the light beam a little without spreading the light everywhere would be to put some real diffusion over the flash head, for instance something like an <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/44015-REG/Rosco_RS301011__3010_Filter_Opal.html">opal</a>. It could be attached the same way as gels. Opal and other diffusion materials are heavily used in cinematography.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 <p>Pete--I googled the term specular light and it is actually quite confusing and not well defined in meaning. I guess what I meant when I used the term in relation to a bare shoemount flash head is that this piece of lighting gear (undiffused) tends to easily produce specular highlights on subjects. When you add diffusion to the head, that tendency is minimized, (although not due to increased size).</p> <p>The OmniBounce will minimize that tendency by diffusion, but there are better ways to do it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Ian Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 <p>It depends... if you are surrounded by guests in white shirts it most certainly is NOT a waste, ...but... if you cant get creative enough to find something to bounce of, then yes.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LenMarriott Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 <p>Danzel, What seems to be only hinted at in the above comments is the specific benefit of creating desirable catch lights in the eyes of the photographer's subjects. Even when I didn't need flash for fill I used to angle the flash head upward with a white card attached simply to create this feature. Puts a little life (sparkle) into the eyes. It did use up a lot of power as this technique caused the flash to fully dump but since I was using a Quantum Battery 1+ battery pack I had power to burn. It was also back in the day when 200 photos was considered a 'big' coverage. Good luck with that today! Best, LM.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william-porter Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 <p>Len, seems to me the question isn't "Is there any point to using the flash while you're outdoors?" The answer to that question can be yes for lots of reasons including, as you rightly mention, creating a nice little catch light. But I thought the question was simply, is there any point to using the Omnibounce outdoors, and the consensus (with which I agree) seems to be, not much. I use flash often when doing portraits outdoors, and even when I don't need fill, I may use it for a catch light. But in that case I can use something like -3 flash compensation and get the desired effect. </p> <p>Will</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LenMarriott Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 <p>William, Yes, today's equipment is much more versatile & offers many more options. With a -3 stop option just imagine how many flashes one could get from a QB 1+ or from any other power source for that matter. For me, the short answer to the question of whether the outdoor use of the Omnibounce was a TOTAL waste is no! :-) Best, LM.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green_photog Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 <p>I think the omni bounce softens the light to the eyes of the subject which is a reason I sometimes use it outdoor. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 <p>Light diffusers/bounce attachments do nothing outdoors at normal distances. Just cut back on the power if you want less light, you can still get a catchlight. The whole idea of the attachments is to soften the light by making the light source larger (hence the "bounce" part of the name) by bouncing it off other surfaces. It's highly unlikely anyone here will be close enough to the clouds in the sky to bounce off them, so it's not doing anything. </p> Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_deerfield Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 <p>I wouldn't say that it's not doing anything. There is a difference between diffusing the light and softening the light and an Ominibounce will <em>diffuse</em> the light. Now as to whether that is the wisest course of action with a shoe mount flash outside, all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 You're not going to see any difference between a 2-inch x 3/4-inch diffuse light source and a 2-inch x 3/4-inch non-diffuse light source unless you're shooting macro with the light very, very close to a very, very small subject. Shooting portraits outside, the only difference will be in battery life/recharge time. If you don't believe me, it's a simple matter to run a test. I had this discussion several years ago on another forum, but the exact topic was whether putting some tissue (or other diffuser) over the flash softened the light outdoors. Even indoors, if the flash was pointed directly at the subject, no one could tell the difference between the photo shot with a diffuser on the flash and one shot without it. Unless you're bouncing the flash, tiny diffusers have a negligible effect on the appearance of the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_mann1 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 <p>There might be some small technical improvements or convenience factors in using a Sto-Fen outdoors, but Mike, Jeff, William, Nadine and all the others who answered "very little effect" are essentially correct.</p> <p>Fundamentally, a typical photographic light modifier really can only do two things: (a) it can change the effective size of the source, and (b) it can change the angular distribution of the light. A modifier like a Sto-fen hardly changes the effective size of the source, but it does greatly increase the angular spread of the light. In this respect, it makes a hot-shoe flash act almost like a bare bulb.</p> <p>Increasing the angular spread is often useful indoors because the light going in the "new" directions can hit reflective surfaces like walls and the ceiling and eventually make its way to the subject, thereby softening the lighting. However, ignoring situations such as a handy group of nearby white shirts ;-), there usually are no such surfaces outdoors, so the light just gets lost, as almost everyone has already pointed out.</p> <p>That being said, there occasionally can be some ancillary benefits from using a StoFen outdoors. For example, if you point your flash head up at 45 degrees, it gets the center of your light source a bit higher and further away from the lens, and it increases the effective size of the source by about 40%. These effects might actually be visible if you are working close to your subject, not using a flash bracket, etc.. In addition, if you are using a lens wider than the built in diffuser on your hot-shoe flash can cover, a Sto-fen can give your flash extra angular coverage. Also, if you are shooting fast and furious at an event, moving from inside (or under a tent) to outside, simply leaving it on means there is one less thing to fuss with and worry about.</p> <p>Hum ...14 responses and not another word from the OP. This might be another one of those threads where we wind up debating the topic among ourselves. Arghh!</p> <p>Tom M</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 <p>Well since we're talking about very minor advantages of the OmniBounce, I'll contribute another. When shooting outside at night (hence using high ISO), the OmniBounce can bounce off floors, such as a wood floor often set up outside for dancing, or concrete, and white or light table cloths of nearby tables, and have some beneficial effect. Again, very minor, but still... I sometimes just drop the wide angle diffuser down over the flash head in these circumstances, getting nearly the same effect because of the wide dispersion of the beam.</p> <p>Of course, if the dancing is on grass, you may not see the advantage at all.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn_mertz Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 <p>if you mean in bright sun, yes. If you are in the shadows and have a white wall to bounce off then it is useful. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 <p>Shawn--I'd say that if you are in shade and have a white wall to bounce off, the most efficient way to bounce off the wall would be aim the bare head at the wall. Having an OmniBounce on the head would not really help, unless you are on the run, as Tom describes, can afford to waste some of the power, and just don't want to bother.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_s. Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 <p>I have never seen anyone being able to demonstrate the difference outside between an omnibounce and without. Please prove me wrong. I'd love to see two otherwise identical images that would show any kind of visible difference. Until then I'd have to say that the only effect the omnibounce seems to have is a placebo effect on the one who used it.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebell Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I have used an omnibounce outdoors before, in various situations. Look at the very last picture in the link below: http://www.bellissimaphoto.co.uk/buckinghamshire-wedding-photographer/stoke-place-hotel-wedding-photography.html I had a willing helper crouching behind the couple aiming the flashgun plus omnibounce directly back at them. How does the omnibounce help...? It scatters the light out in a much wider manner than a bare flashgun does, in this case lighting up the grass (which I wanted from an aesthetic standpoint) and making the aiming of the flashgun by the helper less critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danzel_c Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 <p>sorry i haven't had much time behind the computer since posting the question, but thanks for taking the time to reply! i'd say 99% of the time my flash head is pointed 45 degrees when i have the omnibounce on it whether indoors or out. i do find many times when outdoors i have to take it off because it's robbing too much flash power and i can't get a proper flash exposure. but for those shots where i'm in relatively close on my subjects i always use it with the flash head pointed 45 degrees and seem to get better quality of light than if i had the bare flash point straight on. i will experiment more with balancing flash and ambient though because i know i don't have it completely nailed down. i'd love to use the omnibounce less because it does burn up the batteries quick. so my thoughts were that it is a big waste of light but not a total wast because on close up shots you can improve quality with it tilted 45 degrees. and that 45 degrees scattered light hitting your subject is better quality than straight on</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_mann1 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 <p>DC: <em>"...and that 45 degrees scattered light hitting your subject is better quality than straight on..."</em></p> <p>The small differences you are seeing at close range outdoors with the flash angled up by 45 deg almost certainly are due to (a) the increase in the effective size of the emitting surface (in the direction of interest) and (b) the emitting surface being a bit higher, not due to scattering (ie, light emitted with a wider range of angles). In fact, for exactly that reason, in the diagrams below, I didn't even bother to show light being emitted by the Sto-fen at various angles, only the light going directly towards the subject.</p> <p>Tom M</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_mann1 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 <p>.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_mann1 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 <p>Arghh! I just came back to this thread to see if there were any responses and spotted my typo. :-0 Believe it or not, I know how to spell the word, "straight".</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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