Non Payment

[danbob]

<p>Hi,<br>

I co-own a scanning and printing business here in NYC.<br>

I have a client who has refused to pay their final invoice, but we still have piles of their negatives & chromes.<br>

The work was completed, accepted by the client, and published in a magazine. (The photographer is the client, not the magazine). The outstanding bill is going on being a year old.<br>

My question is: Is it legal/legit to threaten to destroy those negs by a certain date if payment is not received? And if payment is not received is it legal to actually destroy the negs? Has anyone done this?<br>

Thanks in advance for any advice.</p>

 

[Matt Laur]

<p>1) What does the paperwork that the customer signs when they drop off the negs say on it?<br /><br />2) What does your <em>lawyer</em> say?<br /><br />You can ask and change your position on it as many times as you want or need to. But you can only destroy the negs once. Be very thoughful about this.</p>

[starvy]

Any legal challenge should be considered very carefully. You are in the right, however, in business going after the client doesn't always look good. You need to hold on to the negatives. Talk to your lawyer.

[danbob]

<p>Thank you for the responses. We're a very tiny outfit, so our clients don't actually sign anything when dropping off negs and we don't have a lawyer...<br>

Matt makes a good point about not being able to un-destroy the negs. And I think I'll be following Starvy's advice to hold onto them. This is what I figured.<br>

In terms of it not looking that great - this is a special case where this guy is known at labs all over town for non-payment. (Wish I had heard that before doing the job!) Normally we just write off unpaid bills and don't do business with the delinquent client anymore.<br>

Anyway, at this point, I'm just using the threat as leverage. Hopefully he'll take me seriously and pay the bill. Otherwise I guess I'll just put them in a box where I don't have to look at them anymore...<br>

Thanks again for your reponses.</p>

 

[craig_shearman1]

<p>Not a lawyer -- and you should definitely talk to one -- but you probably have what is called a "mechanic's lien" on the negatives. Similar to where a mechanic fixes your car but you don't get the car back until you pay him. The real leverage you hold is at some point the photographer will presumably have a need for these negs and chromes -- and you should not give them back until you have your money, plus interest. I would not make a threat to destroy the negatives -- again not a lawyer but that could sound like a "cause for action" for him to see action in court against you to keep you from dong that. If it came out it could also destroy your reputation among photogrpahers as the lab that threatened to destroy original images. But I could see informing him that you are running out of storage space and will have no choice but to throw out materials from any jobs more than xx months old unless they are picked up by (pick a date). Then the burden is on him to come get them, he's received fair warning, and he has to pay up to get the material.</p>

[danbob]

<p>Craig,<br>

Thank you for your thoughtful response - very informative. Instead of threatening to out-and-out destroy the negs, I said we could no longer store them and if he doesn't respond, I'll assume he wants me to throw them out... and lo and behold! He's contacted me to resolve his outstanding bill - within an hour of contacting him.<br>

Honestly, we would never <em>actually</em> destroy anyone's negs, but thanks for the 'cause for action' heads-up.<br>

Anyway, after receiving advice from this forum and some other sources, apparently the best bet in this situation is to simply send them to a collections agency and let them take the delinquent client to judgment if necessary.<br>

Best,<br>

Dan</p>

<p> </p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>We're a very tiny outfit, so our clients don't actually sign anything when dropping off negs</p>

</blockquote>

<p>How is being "very tiny" relevant to not following ordinary prudent business practices?</p>

<p>In any event, a simple order sheet could have a few things mentioned such as material left for unpaid work is/may be discarded after XXX period of time, the not being responsible for consequential losses (Meaning not responsible for lost profits ect. if your lab screws up).</p>

<p> </p>

[mel_barker]

<p>I would avoid empty threats, however, I would be willing to sue in small claims court (or regular court depending on the amount) for any outstanding invoices approaching a year. You may need to submit a final demand letter before doing so, but as said before, you should see an attorney, not photographers about the legalities.</p>

[danmarchant]

<p>Sounds like it is on the way to being resolved, which is good. as others have i would recommend taking non-payers to small claims and if you can't do that then talk to a collection agency. The agency will take a chunk of the money owed but at the very least they will screw up the clients credit rating.</p>

[bobbollinger]

<p>I am a lawyer, but not licensed in NY. As general legal advice, I would suggest you look into suing the customer in small claims court on the unpaid account. Just store the negatives until that is resolved, then you can give them back. I would not destroy them. <br>

In small claims court, you generally do not need a lawyer. If the bill is too large for the jurisdictional limits of the small claims court, then divide it up--sue first for part of the bill and then file a second small claims suit for the rest of it. Small claims court will cost you your time, a trip or two to the courthouse, and modest filing fees. It is a bargain. If you win you will get a civil judgment that you can then take action to collect. That process is going to be pretty user friendly as well. Good luck. </p>

[blanston]

You will likely be granted a judgement in small claims court. While a judgement is better than nothing, your new

challenge will still be compelling your (then) judgement debtor to pay up. You may have to take additional legal action to

secure payment; such actions include attachment of earnings, ordering sale of certain assets, etc.

 

In the end, you may have to make paying less painful than not paying, which is a trick.

[danbob]

<p>Thanks all for your thoughtful repsonses. In the end we did give the client an ultimatum that this would end up going to small claims court. The client has now agreed to meet at our offices and pay the bill and pick up their negatives (hooray!). The only reason this got so 'ugly' is that we actually do make it painless for our clients to pay: we accept cash, checks, all the major credit/debit cards (via the phone or online payment), and PayPal - not sure how to make it easier than that!</p>

<p>Someone also mentioned our reputation being damaged as a shop who goes after clients. In 6 years of being in business this is the only case where we have done this and only then because the bill was large and the client was ignoring us. We do write off 'bad debts' from smaller unpaid bills each year. And honestly, if we have the reputation that we don't tolerate non-payment of large bills - well that's OK by me.</p>

<p>Again, we appreciate the thoughtful comments and advice, and have taken them to heart. I hope this posting can be of help to other small/tiny business owners as well.</p>

<p>Best to all.</p>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>In small claims court, you generally do not need a lawyer.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I thought they weren't allowed in small claims anyway (you don't actually need one in a any court).</p>