Setting up a commercial Lab?

[david_p_thornton]

<p>The title says it all really. Does anybody on here have any opinions on opening a postal order photo lab in 2012. Would it be a waste? Will film last much longer anyway? I'm mainly asking people from Irelnad and Britain, but overall anyone in Europe, because I've read of a lot of people in Ireland sending out their E6 to be processed in England, and I've been considering it a while, but what has kicked up interest now is that a local pharmacy has stopped processing and they are now selling off their equipment. They have an Agfa MSC 101D (or D101, no too sure :) ) For sale for €2,500. It can print up to 8x10 and they are selling everything to go with it, including paper. What I was wondering, and what would really be the tipping point is if it can be programmed to process E6, rather than C41? Thanks to anyone who answers. Dependind on numbers and opinions, I am considering buying it. Looking for ward to your opinions, David.</p>

[john_shriver]

<p>There's no "low utilization" chemistry for E-6, the way there now is for C-41. So unless you can get a lot of business developing E-6, you will be throwing out a lot of chemistry to do quality E-6. That results in high prices, which it's hard to get people to pay. But nobody will pay for bad E-6 processing a second time, so you can't compromise quality.<br>

I suspect any E-6 processing machine just holds too much chemistry to be able to afford to dump the tanks every 4 weeks. You wouldn't get anywhere near the capacity of the chemistry.<br>

As for the Agfa machine, if it was sold as a C-41 machine, it probably doesn't have enough tanks for the six steps of E-6. C-41 is <br>

It may well be that the best way to run E-6 is sink-line, using the chemistry single-use. If you could set up a metering system to dispense the right amount of each of the developer concentrates to make an 8 ounce tank, and used a tempering bath, you might have better economy than any large-tank system. I think you would reuse bleach, fixer, and final rinse, since they last half a year after mixing, but the other baths would be single-use.<br>

Of course, you also have to deal with the European environmental police, who are strict and thorough.<br>

No idea in the world of the economics of RA-4 digital printing.</p>

 

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>Does anybody on here have any opinions on opening a postal order photo lab in 2012.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /><br>

If you're asking this here, you're probably not ready to do this.<br>

<br />You need to do a real business analysis. Not what is the cost of one machine. What is the cost of the entire operation - equipment, supplies, space, taxes, insurance, waste disposal, marketing, etc. Then there is the other side of it. What will it take to compete for customer business? Lower prices? More marketing dollars? What are the companies doing wrong now that you will fix? Given that this is a shrinking market, you have to give them something better or there's no incentive to change. And on and on and on. When will the cash flow go positive? When will you get to true profitability? If you can't do the business analysis yourself, hire someone. A web survey won't give you any useable answer.</p>

[david_p_thornton]

<p>It wasn't really meant to be a business analysis, it was just out of curiosity, how many people would be willing to use a new service that they wouldn't know much about<br>

If after a while I feel that there is enough interest after ansking at camera clubs etc, I will put serious consideration and effort into making it a successful business. For now it is just and idea that I've planted.</p>

 

[Spearhead]

<p>You've missed my points. Neither forums nor camera clubs are good places to do your research. You have to look at a business analysis to understand the market. A handful of enthusiasts don't make a business, unless your business is selling to a handful of enthusiasts. In addition, without other parameters like convenience, price, service, quality, etc., asking people about it isn't going to give you anything you need. </p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>That is mostly a RA4 printer/processor, it doesn't do E6 but it might do C41 film processing. Google will tell you lots more about it. :)</p>

<p> </p>

[waltflanagan]

<p>Have you ever run a machine like this? Do you currently process your own film? Have you ever run any kind of business before at all? </p>

<p>Are you planning to test a lot of rolls until you get everything fine tuned before opening to the public? I would be very wary of using a new lab for my film. If you mess up processing the film then I can't just take it to someone else and have them redo it.</p>

[rossb]

<p> I have been there and done that. I would not mail my film to anyone ever again. </p>

[george_sonos]

<p>OK. I see that you want a blunt answer.<br /><br />The answer is 'No'. Starting any business in this day age that <br />services film users is a horrible idea. Film is still in a steady<br />decline and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. <br /><br />Anyone who publishes public financial statements (Fuji and Kodak) are having a <br />hard time making money in film now. They may be still profitable, but keep in mind that they're 'Fuji' and 'Kodak' - long time market leaders. Both of those market leaders in film have been discontinuing film left and right. Just do a search here on 'discontinuances' .</p>

<p>And just because Dwayne's can keep their doors open (another incumbent) doesn't mean you can make a "go" of it.<br /><br />To head off anyone who's going to accuse me of being a "hater"<br />or "Against film" or what ever here's my disclaimer:<br /><br />Is film dead - not yet. Will it be - I have no idea. BUT, the market <br />is STILL declining and it hasn't stabilized. <br /><br /><br />But, to start a business in that area is a fool hardy for <br />several of reasons:<br /><br />1. There are too many incumbent businesses with an established track<br />record and client base. What makes you special? And so What? <br />(If your answer is lower prices, you're already screwed.)<br /><br />2. There's not enough customers to go around. The photo processors still<br />around are all struggling for what business there is.<br /><br /><br />3. Chemical suppliers. To do a decent job you need either Fuji or Kodak.<br />Good luck with that. Sure, you can buy BULK still (which means as you're<br />starting up, you'll be throwing out most of your inventory.),<br /><br />4. The Film manufacturers will be discontinuing more films - especially, E6.<br />Yet another downward trend.</p>

<p>Foma and Ilford Films do NOT publish their financials - at least for film - so anyone saying they're making or losing money have no <em>public</em> numbers to back them up.</p>

<p>I'm doing my best to head off any pro or con (hater) of film here. I want to state <em><strong>reality</strong></em> and only <em><strong>reality</strong></em>. I see too often folks who post and are angry over falsehoods or have no data for their opinion.</p>

<p>Get the data.</p>

<p>The more data - real data; like financial statements - the better.</p>

<p>P.S. I created an account to answer you because:</p>

<p>1. From what I could tell, you wanted a blunt answer - "Don't do it" - and no one else was giving it to you.<br /> 2. In the last few years I've seen far too many people completely destroy their finances on dreams. Yeah, yeah,. yeah, for every person who "stuck to their dream and made a million'" there are millions of others who lost everything.</p>

<p>Lets be smart about it. Film is declining and there doesn't seem to be a bottom yet. If you really want to make a some money in photography, the best bet I've seen is come up with a "gadget" - Something you wish you had to make a photo. Photographers are like fishermen and guitarist - always looking for something that make them "better:" That's all I got .</p>

<p>everybody else:<br /> Yeah, yeah, yeah - flame on. Flame on. <br /><br /></p>

[Alan Marcus]

<p>Can supply proforma free, outdated but you can update with current chemical costs.<br>

<a href="mailto:alanmaxinemarcus@att.net">alanmaxinemarcus@att.net</a></p>

 

[george_sonos]

<p>Oh, great. I'm being followed by a ...</p>

<p>Just great.</p>

<p>In this day and age I can't really speak my mind about some people.</p>

<p>Do your homework people Anyone who posts on ANY forums is a liar until proven otherwise - myself included.</p>

[Alan Marcus]

<p>The proforma I can supply will back Mr. Sonos' observations.<br>

Not everyone is a liar! Not everyone is a scammer!<br>

I am dedicated to helping my fellow photo enthusiasts.<br>

A rule-of-thumb is "Don't look a gift horse in the month"</p>