Starting A Business

[percy_jones]

<p>Hello all, I am an Army retiree currently work as an Air Force photographer maintaining a studio and also shooting news and editorial photos. I have 12 years photography experience, 6 of which is in forensic photography (hopefully I will get certified this summer).<br>

Sounds great huh, well I was told in January that my position is being cut (soon), and as I do not have another job set yet, I do have a mortgage and looking to at least start some photography work on the side.<br>

This may be great for a younger fotog, but at 54 my options may be running out. I have cleared out my garage and although small, working on setting up a small studio to do some product, portraits, and hopefully some legal photography work.<br>

The Air Force tells me they are looking for another position to place me in; however, it will not be as a photographer,but in another career field.<br>

I guess my question is, is it too late to consider starting striking out on my own, at least partially, to help cushion the inevitable blow that follows? <br>

I've also taught crime scene photography classes to several agencies here, so that may be another in.<br>

Thoughts, and in this new age of digital cameras when photographers are increasingly providing services for less, how would I fair, how would I market myself? 1 niche, I'm still in the 15% here that still shoot film of all formats.</p>

<p> </p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>"I'm still in the 15% here that still shoot film of all formats."<br />Percy -- are you saying that you only shoot film? I'm guessing from what you describe that you are working primarily in digital but still like to shoot some film. If you're not shooting digital, my first recommendation would be to start immediately and get good fast.<br />I would look at a couple of options. One would be to start contacting news organizations, especially ones that might have published your work in the past or where you have contacts, and let them know you are available for freelance work. Same with law enforcement agencies where you have taught crime scene photography, either for freelance or even a full time position if that's available. Or for more teaching assigments if not photo work. Legal photography -- reach out to attorneys you know, etc.<br />All of this can be done on the side as you build up business. If you can hold onto some sort of Air Force job in the meantime, even if it's not photography, it might be worth it for the steady income and benefits. At 54, are you close to a second military pension? That's something to think about.</p>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>If you're not shooting digital, my first recommendation would be to start immediately and get good fast.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Another way of looking at it is that if you stick with film you can use it as a way of making you stand out from the crowd. Advertise yourself on the merits of traditional film photography.</p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>Advertise yourself on the merits of traditional film photography.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /><br>

In all the jobs I've done since I started shooting with digital, I've never been asked to use film or questioned about use of digital. On the other hand, I've gotten a number of jobs because of my ability to shoot until midnight on Saturday night and have photos up by 3AM Sunday morning, which is not possible with film.</p>

[steve m smith]

<p>But that's what everybody else can do!</p>

[Spearhead]

<p>Sure they can. But a lot of them don't, and they may not have the quality of shots. It's all about meeting client expectations. </p>

[percy_jones]

<p>Thanks for the responses. Craig/Steve, yes, I have been shooting digital for several years both in the studio and for news photography. I grew up with, and have always had a passion for film, and continue to shoot in all formats, developing and printing my B&W, and scanning both color and B&W to digital files. <br>

As far as the legal photography goes, I have used film before in some crime scene photography. I think some firms might entertain film over digital in some cases as the battle over digital manipulation of images continues to pop up every now and again.<br>

Jeff, having shot news photography for quite some time, I know exactly what you mean about digital v. film for getting the shot out in a timely fashion. The industry requires, no demands, immediate publication of those type images.<br>

It's just that after a combined 37 years, I've never really given any serious thought to going into business and so I'm kind of at a loss for starting points. I've been taking a few small business classes, talking to contacts about opportunities (maybe even some pro bono work), and working to update my website to market myself a little better. <br>

I do plan on finding another full time civil service job before the end of the summer, but as things never seem to work as planned, I'm trying to come up with some alternative means of income.<br>

Thanks again everyone for the responses.</p>

[bobbollinger]

<p>If you plan to market to lawyers, the ones who need photography tend to be personal injury (accident scenes) and criminal defense (crime scenes). <br>

Film could be very viable here for years to come due to the notion that digital can be manipulated. Of course, a scanned negative can be manipulated too. </p>

[mike dixon]

<i>Film could be very viable here for years to come due to the notion that digital can be manipulated.</i><P>

Digital photos are already accepted as evidence in legal proceedings.

[craig_shearman1]

<p>In my days as a reporter when I sometimes covered trials, the photographer or police officer who took a crime scene photo was placed on the witness stand during trial and asked "is this a fair and accurate representation of what you observed?" I believe they also asked "has this photo been altered in any way?" This was before digital, but I think those question and the answers were more the key point that the technology. Same should apply with digital, I would presume, but Percy has been there and done that and should know the answer.</p>

[mike dixon]

Craig, the same does apply to digital. The procedure for using photos as evidence is essentially the same whether the capture medium is film or digital.

[james_smith55]

<blockquote>

<p>Hello all, I am an Army retiree currently work as an Air Force photographer maintaining a studio and also shooting news and editorial photos. I have 12 years photography experience, 6 of which is in forensic photography (hopefully I will get certified this summer).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sounds like you have a lot of experience and if the $700+ billion Pentagon budget is true I assume you've worked with some nice equipment. If you have a nice portfolio of work you should be able to get work doing something somewhere assuming there is demand. We don't know where you live and we don't know what the local market is like. How many other photographers are offering services you are interested in offering in the civilian world?</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Thoughts, and in this new age of digital cameras when photographers are increasingly providing services for less, how would I fair, how would I market myself? 1 niche, I'm still in the 15% here that still shoot film of all formats.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If you shoot medium format film it should be pretty easy to market that with a few biased samples ;) Seriously though if you have a more premium market you could sell things like "hand made" large B&W enlargements. But you will have to aggressively market them and do plenty of education. Also if you are good at developing and making prints people do that as a business as well. They get a web presence and then have people mail them their film. They process and print it. I'm talking about black and white here. I can't imagine it's too expensive to do other people's black and white stuff if you are already set up to do your own in volume.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>In all the jobs I've done since I started shooting with digital, I've never been asked to use film or questioned about use of digital.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=19592">Jeff Spirer</a>, marketing is part of running a business. And part of marketing is making clients suddenly realize they have needs they never even knew they had. Steve jobs didn't wait for people to walk up to him and ask for an overpriced mp3 player. He made one and sold it to the world. Look at smartphones. How many people actually "need" those things? I don't know if marketing film prints is something that has a large lucrative market... but it does have a market. Quote from Arizona Highways...</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>In order to achieve the high-quality reproductions in our publications, <strong>we prefer large format (4x5) transparencies</strong>, especially for the large scenic landscapes for <em>Arizona Highways</em> is famous.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I suppose the types of requests you get depend on who you work for. Know what I mean?</p>

<p>FYI I have no recollection of ever selling a film scan or print. Frankly it's never come up. I am not a pro and everything I've sold thus far is digital. But I've always thought if done correctly one could market film products to the right people. The forensic thing is an interesting idea. If you have the original negative or slide that would be awfully hard to tamper with. I also like the idea of offering large portraits taken on medium format film to the upper end clientele. It's a possibility. I don't know how viable it is but it's certainly a space I would like someone to explore.</p>

[Spearhead]

<p>Arizona Highways is the only reference that anyone can give, and they now accept digital submissions for a lot of their submissions. </p>

<p>You may think people can market film to people, but nobody buying cares what you think. And the forensic thing is nonsense, as Mike Dixon points out.</p>

[percy_jones]

<p>Thanks for the additional input all.<br>

Working on the marketing piece. By the way, I live in Alaska and while photographers (of the portrait, nature, and commercial genre) are a dime a piece here, I've found only one or two who offer services to the legal community. And even those are mainly concentrating mainly on court exhibit preparation (not necessarily taking the photographs), personal injuries, real estate, and some industrial equipment failure projects.</p>

<p>None advertise service, or experience, in actual on-scene image capture, be it crime, fire/arson, or major accident, or the re-construction thereof. Most would not want to get more involved than the actual photography, not getting involved in the full legal process.</p>

<p>Yes digital imaging has been ruled acceptable in courts for more than 15 years, and yes digitally scanned film images can be manipulated as easily as straight digital. Regardless, even agencies like the FBI forensic photography laboratory still routinely photograph high value evidentiary items using high end 4x5 film cameras and digitally scan them to TIFFs. But there is still a negative, secured by a strict chain of custody, and archived forever, just because.</p>

<p>So I'll keep working on marketing myself better, talking to those I know at different agencies, and continuing the hunt for a day job. Working on some personal photography to add to my website (unfortunately a lot of what I've shot for the Department of Defense cannot be used, although I'm trying to obtain a few photo releases). 2012 is going to be an interesting year. Thanks again all.</p>

[photomark]

Hi Percy, I'm up in Alaska too. It's an interesting market and a small community. If I were you, I would

start with a business plan before thinking too much about marketing. Decide what you want to do in an

ideal world and then figure out if there is really a market for it. I know a lot of photographers up here and

not a single forensic photographer (that I know of). I don't know anything about the business of forensic

photography, but I've always assumed that investigative companies would add photography as a

service rather than commercial photographers picking it up. It seems like there is a little more synergy

that way since they already have the clients. My first question would be: how much work is there up

here in forensic photography and how hard is it for a individual photographer to secure? Even if you

were the only one and got all the work, is it enough? Are you competing with state and federal agencies

who have in-house photographers?

 

Starting with a business plan will help you distill what you want to do and determine if it's feasible.

Although, like James said, marketing can create a market, the numbers are against you up here; it's a

small place. You will be better off identifying an existing market and trying to serve them. There is also

a small, but moderately active ASMP chapter up here that has relatively frequent gatherings if you ever

want to connect with colleagues.

[percy_jones]

<p>Thanks Mark, yes I have started on a business plan (a slow process), and will be attending the SBA's class soon, as well as a few others, like book keeping. </p>

<p>Most law enforcement agencies, such as APD, issue cameras to their officers and have two actual photographers who pretty much do the receiving and archiving of those photos, as well as all laboratory photography, and of course the Troopers have their crime lab.</p>

<p>In addition to the agencies I mentioned before, I'm looking toward agencies such the Forest Service, Fish & Game, Natural Resources, etc., in the hopes to do more instruction in the field (a couple of which I have already presented classes to). </p>

<p>I am also fortunate to have, over the years, accumulated nearly all of the equipment I need to do studio, instruction, and on-scene photography, so my overhead would be minimal to start (mainly training material and travel). I am also very fortunate to have had, up until this year at least, a very diverse jump start into the field as I have also received in-depth training in the actual collection of evidence to supplement my photography, giving me a better perspective on image capture.</p>

<p>I still plan on continuing to shoot still life, some portraits, and scenics and have talked to a few non-profit agencies regarding some pro bono work (as a portfolio builder). Now I just have to try and put all of this together. I've been watching Craigslist at all of the "photographers" out there these days who "just bought a new DLSR and can provide services just like the pros, but a lot cheaper", therein I believe would be my biggest competition.</p>

<p>Well, I'll give it a shot, considering it's a start it's better than nothing.</p>