rob_hanssen Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 <p>A friend gave me a very old folding MF camera. It turned out to be a (pretty well functioning) Afga Billy 7.7 (production 1933-1942, 6x9, 120 film). Although it can take "picture with character" (i.e. low contrast, specks, limits in speed/aperture combinations, limited focusing ranges), I would like to see what an actual quality medium format system can do.<br> <br /> I looked at KEH for starters and found that the Bronica SQ system is well regarded and within budget (I think, would be $500-700). To make sure, some questions:<br> -What do you think of the SQ (I'd like to try the square format for a change from EOS Digital)<br />-What do I actually need? I thought: body with view finder, 120 back, 65 mm f/4 lens. Am I wrong and do I need to add more for a basic functional setup?<br />-Any watchouts? I would buy EX and EX+ to start.<br />-How is KEH and how does it compare to other sites?<br> My main applications would be landscapes and my kids (mostly full-body and busy in activity, so no telephoto required yet)<br> Thanks for helping me out,<br> Rob</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou_Meluso Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 <p>You got a good basic system lined up there. You might look for a Speed grip and Prism finder later on. An 80mm lens is a fine addition. The"PS" lenses are a bit newer and sharper than the older lenses. It's a great camera system and KEH is a good place to buy. Good luck!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_hanssen Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 <p>In case anyone wants to see the pics from the Agfa ( http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00a68L ) - not intended to be a cross-post, just for who's interested.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_beede Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 <p>I bought my first Bronica (ETRS) recently and am enjoying it. I think more than one 120 back would make sense... you will run through 12 exposures very quickly and reloading a MF is slow(er) going!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ya_dong Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 <p>I like ETRSi. It's great. I have three backs, one w&b, one color negative and another positive.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_livacich Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 <p>An SQ is an old camera now. If you can afford a newer model, SQ-A or SQ-Ai, get that, or if you don't foresee needing a meter, an SQ-B is a good choice also.<br> Certainly Bronicas are a great value, and allow you to get your feet wet for not a lot of money. I have two ETR-Si's and enjoy them immensely, and would like to move to the SQ series at some point.</p> <p>Check this out:<br> http://www.tamron-usa.com/bronica/slr_archives.asp</p> <p>The SQ section has info on the last version.<br> The SQ Guide has info on each version and the overall history.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardsperry Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Save up for an SQ A or AI. I pretty sure the B does not have mirror lock up. Get a meter finder. Lenses are cheap enough to get a nice little kit. 60 or/and 80, and a 150. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_smith35 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 <p>The SQB does have a mirror lock up - what it doesn't have is a 'B' setting or a 'T' position on the supplied 80mm lens. Less importantly, it also lacks the TTL flash capability if the SQAi. The model to go for is the SQAi as this is the newest with the most desireable features - the least desireable model IMO is the SQB.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie_robertson2 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 <p>I can recommend the SQ-A. Far cheaper than a 'blad and more feature laden. They are mechanically complex and are ingeniously designed. Each mechanical part of the camera communicates with the other somehow with idiot proof measures to prevent accidental exposure. Look for ex-wedding kits. They'll be well used but will be in tip top order and cheaper too. I got my SQ-A, 80mm 2.8 PS, 120 back, speed grip, WLF, metered prism, a couple of different focusing screens and other goodies for £300 GBP (approx 480USD). I've actually just got back home after a days shooting with mine. The AE prism has just failed though, dammit!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_cheshire Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 <p>If you get an urge to own a Bronica ETRS system, let me know. I would consider selling mine for $275. shipped and, considering what nice condition it is in, I think that is a pretty fair price. It is the body, 120 back, prism, standard lens.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfcole Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 <p> <strong>Far cheaper than a 'blad</strong><br> I guess this would lead to this.....<br> <strong>The AE prism has just failed though, dammit!</strong></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie_robertson2 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 <blockquote> <p><strong>Far cheaper than a 'blad</strong><br />I guess this would lead to this.....<br /><strong>The AE prism has just failed though, dammit!</strong><br> <strong><br /></strong></p> </blockquote> <p>Do I detect a touch of 'blad snobbery? How many threads have you seen along the lines of "My 500CM has jammed", "How do I unjam my Hasselblad?, "My 'blad lens will not come off". At least the failure of an AE prism doesn't stop you shooting. I shot all day today with a dead AE prism using the sunny 16 rule to work out my exposures. Try doing that with a jammed Hasselblad costing 3 times as much..</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardsperry Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Thanks David. I knew it was something important that I needed. More important than MLU. Ya, don't get the B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_henderson Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 <p>I used Bronica SQ-Ai cameras professionally for more than ten years for landscape/urban work. They produced fine photographs just so long as I did. I tested a Hasselblad and couldn't see a meaningful difference in the images. Nevertheless I'd accept that Hasselblads are likely on average to give less trouble and last longer, and I had a few incidents with my Bronicas all of which were put right . <br> The SQ-B was a somewhat cut down version of the SQ-Ai in order to achieve a lower price point. The most obvious difference being that there was no circuitry to support metered prisms, so the use of an external meter was implicit. That said i never found Bronica's metered prisms to be much use, and used a hand-held for preference and didn't use very long exposures much. So for me, the Ai and B models were much the same and they performed identically.</p> <p>I will say that for me, photographing landscapes required more than one lens and the enthusiasm to walk back and forward. Photographing kids? Do you mean portraits or at play? I wouldn't regard Bronica as the best action camera ever made and indeed like most MF they'll perform better on a tripod. The combination of a moving subject and a camera that will need at maybe 1/60 to turn in a usably sharp image handheld isn't ideal I'd suggest. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_hanssen Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 <p>Thanks for all the responses.</p> <p>In reply to some: I was thinking about the SQ-B with the waist-level viewfinder. I can handle some exposure estimates and would like to learn more about them. As said before, I would also like something different than my Canon 30D (which will remain my main picture machine, for now). The Bronica would be for fun, creative stuff and for getting to know film.</p> <p>I'll keep you updated. My plan is to make this my birthday present - less convincing the wifey...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_porter2 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 <p>The SQ-B is an excellent enthusiast's camera. I have the plain prism and waist-level finders and 65mm, 80mm, and 110mm lenses. Everything was bought via eBay/KEH, though Koh's Camera is also a good source. I mainly went with the SQ-B since it uses the same battery as most of my other 120 cameras. The drawback to the SQ-B is that there is no indicator in the viewfinder when the camera is set for double-exposure, and there is no B setting on the shutter speed selector. But those have never been issues for me.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_livacich Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 <p>The SQ-B lacks the ability to meter, though it will physically accept a meter prism just fine for viewing. It is otherwise basically the same as an SQ-A.<br> One thing that makes the SQ-B desirable is that it is the latest model. The SQ came out in 1980, the SQ-A in 1982, the SQ-Ai in 1990, the SQ-B in 1996. The SQ-Ai and SQ-B were made concurrently until the series was terminated. So you can't get an SQ-B older than about 15 years old. If you don't want or need an internal meter it can save some money.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfcole Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 <p>Jamie,<br> Only being half serious. I'd buy an SQ series, and in side-by-side comparisons couldn't see a difference with Hasselblad (except for the 2 notches). One thing I have heard about the Bronica, though, is that they eat batteries.<br> Scott</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryp Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 <p>Echoing some of the above, from an ETRS owner -- I never found the metered prisms worthwhile or reliable enough. They add weight and a hand-held incident meter is my recommendation. A non-meter eye-level prism is a real benefit but doubly so if you add the hand grip. Together they make handling the SQ or ETRS like an overgrown 35mm slr. I shot weddings with the ETRS for years working for a Hassy user. Other than the format difference neither he nor his customers saw any significant difference in image quality, color fidelity, contrast or sharpness. YMMV</p> <p>Henry Posner<br /><strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p> Henry Posner B&H Photo-Video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie_robertson2 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 <blockquote> <p>Jamie,<br />Only being half serious. I'd buy an SQ series, and in side-by-side comparisons couldn't see a difference with Hasselblad (except for the 2 notches). One thing I have heard about the Bronica, though, is that they eat batteries.<br />Scott</p> </blockquote> <p>Ha ha, it's funny you should mention the battery issue. You know I said my AE prism was dead? It turned out that the new battery I put in the camera was actually dead on arrival (even though it was fresh out the packet). I put another new one in today and it's back to full health again. I'm going to have to carry 3 or 4 batteries in my bag in future I think.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_beede Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 <p>Energizer '544 is $2.97 at WalMart. Cheap! How long does your battery last if you forget to turn off your AE-II?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie_robertson2 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 <blockquote> <p>Energizer '544 is $2.97 at WalMart. Cheap! How long does your battery last if you forget to turn off your AE-II?</p> </blockquote> <p>I've only forgotten to turn off the AE once and the battery drained really fast so I certainly won't be doing that again! I'm in the UK so have no access to Walmart but I can get hold of the batteries quite cheaply thankfully.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony-S Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 <p>Is there a reason you're not considering a Bronica GS-1? It's 6x7cm and the newest of the Bronica cameras (other than the RF645 rangefinder).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardsperry Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 As a former GS1 owner here are my caveats. It's bigger and heavier. Fewer PG lenses on the market. Backs and finders as well. The negatives don't fit in sleeves well. They either stick out the sleeve making contact sheets unreasonable, or you need two sheets for a roll, requiring two contact sheets instead of one. A 6x7 negative holder is rare to find for a price comparable to a 6x6 holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony-S Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 <p>I've had no issues getting my GS-1 system together, and that includes most of the available lenses and all of the backs. For me, 20% more film per exposure and the 4:5 ratio makes 6x7 superior to square formats, especially for making prints such as 8x10". And I also have a 6x7 carrier for my Beseler 67C XL enlarger.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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