Pub Gig Advice needed

[ShunCheung]

<p>With Nikon cameras, if you are going to use flash, do not use the Program mode. I am among very few serious photographers who like the Program mode, but that is strictly for using available light. Nikon's Program mode will greatly restrict the shutter speed and aperture combinations you can use when you are using a flash; those restrictions would typically lead to undesirable results.</p>

<p>If you understand how the Program mode works, it can work very well, without using flashes.</p>

[zweeko]

<p>"horrible orange light"? shoot in black-and-white.

[jriherd]

<p>I haven't done a lot of this kind of shooting, but it is something I really enjoy. I did a showcase at SXSW in 2011. It was in a small, dark venue with crappy (for the purpose of photography) stage lighting. All I'll do is explain the experience and not give you a lot of do this and don't do that advice. In this and similar shoots I do not often like to use flash. I will use it at very low power, but rarely like even that unless there is a decent wall or ceiling to bounce. I've acquired a variety of light modifiers that might do some interesting things, but I have yet to try them on this kind of shoot. I use a D700 now, but can imagine that I would have gotten some good shots using my D80 in its day. The lights at the SXSW showcase were flashing and in a variety of colors. There were rhythm to the lights and I was often able to time an exposure at the moment of maximum brightness. I shot manual exposure and finally just set it as close as possible to what I thought was right and didn't worry about it again. "What was right" means as good as I was gonna get. I could have improved exposure but would have been messing with it so much, I'd have missed a lot of shots. Next time I will try to use AP more. Although I could even access that stage, I found my favorite photos coming from my longest lens, the 70-200 2.8. Those favorites were those that focused in on one performer. I also used a wide angle to get some band shots, but frankly I don't find most of the full band shots as interesting as those focused on individuals or details like a keyboardist's or guitar player's hands. Slow shutter speeds just meant I had to use vibration reduction and disciplined camera carry. I wrapped around poles. I sat backward in chairs and booths and locked my elbows down on the furniture. A small venue means you can react better with the audience if you don't get in their way. Turn to the audience for some good people shots, too.<br>

I'm going to try to put a pic up here. It was done with the D700 at ISO 1600, the 70-200 mm 2.8 is zoomed to 102mm. There is no flash used. Exposure was 1/30th at f/4. The subject is Donny Green, a fine guitar player who I sat in front of in the cornet section of our high school band in the 70's.<br>

If I fail to get it uploaded, you can see several of my shots from the showcase on my Facebook photography page at:<br /><a href="https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.190733107629448.40470.176361989066560&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=190810644288361&set=a.190733107629448.40470.176361989066560&type=3&theater">https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.190733107629448.40470.176361989066560&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=190810644288361&set=a.190733107629448.40470.176361989066560&type=3&theater</a></p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>BAD ADVICE ALERT: not in live performance, it ain't. using P mode indoors almostgives you a fast enough shutter to freeze motion-1/250 or greater</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Another reason for not using a Programme or Automatic mode is that the meter will try to over-expose. Meters treat everything like an outdoor 18% grey scene. The lighting in pubs is generally on the performers but with very dark backgrounds. The meter will try to compensate for the darkness and ask for a bit more exposure. </p>

<p>Better to meter off of a person or even a grey card and use these settings manually.</p>

[Peter_in_PA]

<blockquote>

<p>Another reason for not using a Programme or Automatic mode is that the meter will try to over-expose. Meters treat everything like an outdoor 18% grey scene.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Use spot-metering in these cases. Problem solved.</p>

[ellery_chua___singapore]

<p>I would work with the 50 most of the time - band shots about 30 to 40% about environmentals and 85 for the portraiture shots. I think you will need to work with the flash. Most of these places are probably tungsten lights so in order for your flash's light to blend in please gell the flash with a CTO (convert to orange) gel. Think of other ways for the flash to add light in other than bang straight on. That's flat mood less lighting, think bounced of ceiling off side walls. Try to mimic how the light in the room is, you can cheat to stimulate window light of sorts. <br>

All of this is to blend the light from the flash you added to the light that is basic to what there is in the room. Then it will all look natural, do it wrong and it looks bad.<br>

You will need to fiddle with the white balance setting to make it all look - ah sigh natural and with mood. As opposed to looking to clean and sterile. Since light in these places is a little warm one white balance point would be a little warm but not as warm or reddish yellow as it is actually. </p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>I would work with the 50 most of the time</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br />One more time - the choice of focal length has as much to do with where you can stand as what you are trying to capture. In a "pub" environment as described, given that there's no stage, you can usually shoot a few feet from the musicians - in fact, you often have to or you will be behind the crowd - and a 50 is too long.</p>

[nigel_farmer]

<p>Thanks for all the great advice, still need to take some of it all in.Some great shots posted as well. Some thoughts of mine and from above -<br>

Should I use the Auto ISO functionality - from the advice above it would seem sensible to limit it to 1600. I havent used the auto ISO functionality before as I usually like to be in control of the ISO.<br>

When not using flash, Aperture or Shutter Priority? Or since there will be no flashing lights to deal with and therefore the light should be fairly constant should I just spot meter off say the singers face, and set the exposure manually, keeping an eye on histogram from time to time and adjusting accordingly.<br>

If and when I use flash, I was thinking to use manual mode, with TTL, bouncing off the walls/ceiling with +FC depending on the conditions. There wont be any room to position the flash off camera.I had thought about gels, and I do have some, but have not really had time to use them much, so think I will leave this out of the equation for now -think I have enough to worry about.<br>

Im thinking that the 35mm is going to be my best bet, and that the 50 will be too long. With flash I have a few more options.<br>

Thanks again.</p>

 

[eric_arnold]

<blockquote>

<p>I would work with the 50 most of the time - band shots about 30 to 40% about environmentals and 85 for the portraiture shots.</p>

<p><em>the choice of focal length has as much to do with where you can stand as what you are trying to capture.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>have to second what jeff wrote. anyone blindly endorsing a particular focal length for this type of situation probably has very little experience actually shooting in that environment. in general, you want to shoot bands with zooms, while primes are good for focusing on the lead singer/guitarist, etc..</p>

<p>in the OP's case, if he's right up next to the band in a no-stage pub, the 35 might actually be the "long lens" with the 10-20 being useful as the go-to lens. if i'm that close to a band, i like to pull out the 15mm fisheye, and switch off with my 24-70 (on FX). on DX, that would be 10mm and 17-50 or so. switching lenses in the middle of a crowd is a pain so the less of it you have to do the better.</p>

<p>one real question for the OP is whether the 10-20 and 16-85 will be usable, even with flash, at 5.6--which is wide open for both lenses on the long end--and ISO 1600. if not, then he'll have to go for whatever prime works best, which would probably be the 35. this could be one of those situations where an 11-16 could actually be useful for its 2.8, although i dont consider that focal length very people friendly.</p>

<p>regarding auto-ISO: the d90 will often default to 1600 if you set it to go that high. the reason to use auto-ISO if if you have changing lighting conditions, like lights that go from blue to red, or white/yellow spotlights which come on and off. seems like the pub set up is pretty low-tech so i would guess lighting will be constant but poor. which means you can manually set ISO if you think you can get away with something lower than 1600. if not, just set auto-ISO with a 1600 cap.</p>

<p>usually with flash, WB set to 'flash' gives the most consistent results. without flash i usually do tungsten or kelvin setting, dependingon what looks better. i also shoot in full manual since i pretty much know what shutter/aperture settings i want. as previously noted, Aperture-priority, like P, may not give you a high enough shutter speed to freeze motion. Shutter priority in a dim club with a fast shutter will usually default to wide open, which could result in mis-focus if shooting with fast primes. therefore, shooting in manual makes the most sense.</p><div></div>

[dave_wilson1]

<p>Really, again, <strong>it's whatever works for you</strong>. I use a 50mm a lot, actually a real lot. Actually, it's my go to lens for jazz clubs and coffee house jazz performances and next is the 85mm.</p>

[ted262]

<p>When I shoot in clubs I try not to use a flash because I've been asked not to by the musicians.</p>

[nigel_farmer]

<p>Thanks again for all the advice. The gig was on Saturday. I managed to get a few Ok shots in the first half before the lights got dimmed way too low to get anything. I had the 35mm on camera, but also took the 85, 10-20 and 16-85 and SB600, but these all stayed in the bag. The lighting was going to be reasonably constant, so whilst the band were setting up I took a couple of test shots and fixed my settings to ISO 1600 and manual at 1/40 second f1.8. During the evening I occasionally adjusted the aperture to f2 - f2.2 and the shutter speed to 1/50 second after previewing shots on the lcd. My favourite shot from the night is -> <a href="

[Spearhead]

<p>It's too bad you had such a cluttered background, not uncommon in these settings. At least it doesn't look, from any of them, that there was lit neon lighting behind them. Overall good job, especially given the lighting, next time, if you're in the same place, try flash bounced off the ceiling and a higher aperture. It should bring down the background.</p>