Lens dilemma for event photography

[missc]

<p>I have been offered the possibility of covering an indoor ballet show. I also plan on offering my services for various events (mainly kid shows & sport events). I will be offering my images for sale to parents, so quality is an important issue, though I won’t be making big enlargements (for now).<br>

<br />I am currently working with a Cannon 30D and a EF-S 17-55mm 2.8 IS lens. I feel this lens won’t allow me to get in close enough for certain events. After reading various posts in this forum, I am still unsure as the way to go.<br>

<br />I am looking at the following options:<br>

<br />a & b) 70-200mm 2.8 IS L (Cannon) <br />Two models are available here, the old and the new. Can anyone tell me what the new IS II model will offer more than its previous version? There’s about 1 000$ difference on the price tag…<br /><br />c) EF 135mm f/2L (Cannon) <br />This lens is about the same price at the older 70-200mm.<br /><br />d) I was told the Sigma 70-200 (EX-DG-OS-HSM) could also be a good choice, price similar to the older 70-200mm & 135mm.<br>

<br />For the ballet show context (stage lighting), I’m guessing I’m going to have to boost my ISO up to 1600 or 3200? Do you think I’ll be able to use a relatively high speed, at least 1/250s with these lenses and my current camera? I should be able to fix some the graininess in LR afterwards, but I will definitely need the high-speed to capture movement.<br>

<br />Thanks in advance for your insight.</p>

[Robin Smith]

<p>I shoot these things a fair amount. Depending on the show, I use the 24-70, 135 f2L and 200 f2.8/L and sometimes I add a +1.4X teleconverter to the 200mm. It depends very much how close you are to the stage. Being close is not necessarly good as you want to avoid looking up at the dancers. I shoot at 1600-6400 (mostly at 3200) and get 1/250-1/1000 shutter speed with a 5D MK II. Assuming the 30D is not so good at such high ISOs then you will need to shoot at 1600, so it will still work, but this assumes good light. In my experience often the light is very good and bright, so it can be less of an issue than you might think. I usually shoot in manual mode after establishing the right exposure. A 70-200mm IS lens will work nicely instead of the 135/200mm combination, although in my experience only the ver 2 of the 70-200mm will match the other lenses in crispness at full aperture. The 24-70 is not used much but is useful for giving a full stage shot once in a while. You will need a minimum of 1/500 to freeze movement, but you could try lower shutter speeds when the dancers are not moving and holding a position. Here an IS-equipped lens has an advantage. If the lights get low then you will have to underexpose. This will mean noise, so you will have to cope with it.</p>

<p>I have also shot shows with a Rebel XTi and an 85 f1.8 at ISO 800-1600 successfully, although, of course, the quality was not so good, but I found it still worked pretty well.</p>

[alan_bryant1]

<p>Can you photograph at rehearsals, or do you have to shoot at a performance?</p>

<p>Shooting at performances is more difficult because you can't move around the room. For that, a zoom helps a lot. I shoot a lot of theater performances on a 5D with a 70-200/2.8 IS mk I. I'm about 60 feet from the stage. It works pretty well, though it's neither wide as I sometimes need nor as telephoto as I sometimes need. A DSLR is a noisy camera, so I use a camera muzzle to help kill the noise.</p>

<p>Shooting in rehearsals is much easier. You can walk around, so a zoom is not really necessary. The noise is usually not a problem either. An 85/1.8 or 100/2 would be excellent and reasonably priced choices for that.</p>

<p>So, from your choices,</p>

<p>A and B are good but high-cost alternatives. The mk II lens is sharper and has lower flare, but I find the mk I lens adequately sharp. Flare can be a problem though.</p>

<p>C is a great lens; however if you can walk around, the 85/1.8 or 100/2 would probably serve just as well.</p>

<p>D I don't have experience with.</p>

 

[Marcus Ian]

<p>I wouldn't worry about an IS (or OS) capable telephoto for this.  As you noted, you'll need high shutter speeds to capture the action anyway, so IS isn't really going to be a huge benefit (in<em> this</em> case).  Maybe for other stuff, later on, it would be worth it, but this role isn't one of those. <br>

 <br>

As far as the 70-200/2.8L IS II ? it's a tough call, but I found it really wasn't that much of an improvement... except that the IS is much better - for me, because I hardly find myself needing IS normally, it definitely wasn't worth it.<br>

 <br>

Frankly, either a 70-200/2.8L or 70-200/2.8 HSM are going to be fine, especially on your crop camera.  It's impossible for us to say whether the lighting will be adequate to give you 1/300+ shutter speed, but I wouldn't count on it, maybe you can add some flash? it'll add fill and help freeze the motion...<br>

OTOH, a 135/2 may be ideal (depending on your actual distance, and required flexibility). but shallow DOF is your enemy in this circumstance, but aside from the inherit 'prime' limitation, it'll give you the best results of the three.<br>

 <br>

With the 30D, personally, I wouldn't plan on shooting at much higher than ISO 800, because you'll see a significant noise differential between the properly exposed subjects, and the darker background.  a PITA to post. <br>

 <br>

Have you thought about delivery (on site printing, delayed deliv. etc.)?</p>

[bob-c]

<p>I have shot several stage productions recently, both high school and adult theater. I use a 7D with the old 70-200mm lens w/o IS BUT I always use a good tripod. I bought a Gitzo without a center column and a Manfrotto gimbal head. You may also want to think about shooting a dress rehearsal rather than the actual performance which will give you a lot more mobility with pictures just as nice.</p>

[alan_bryant1]

<p>I should add that the director I work with is fond of dim light. I usually work at ISO 1250, f/2.8, and get shutter speeds from 1/125 in bright scenes down to 1/10 or lower in dim scenes. I use a monopod to support the lens, but shooting people at 1/10 is hit or miss in theater; at ballet it's probably hopeless unless you're going for artistic blurs.</p>

<p>Don't expect great results your first time out. It will take some practice to learn to work with the light you've got.</p>

[Spearhead]

<p>Rather than spending a lot on a lens for this one occasion, you should consider renting. It looks like you're in Montreal, try rentalens.ca.</p>

[mike_earussi1]

<p>If you've got the money to buy a new 70-200 IS then you would be far better off putting it towards a much better camera body that can handle low light. A new 60D and the non IS 70-200 would be a much better combination. Either that or rent.</p>

[morthcam]

<p>I shot high school musicals for a few years, the dress rehearsal is definitely the way to go. That way you also have a couple of chances to get the shot if you see a really good shot but don't get it the first time, you're ready the next time they do that scene. If you can do the dress rehearsal, even a 50 can work well on a crop camera, 85 is plenty long enough. Doing the dress rehearsal also means you can have pictures printed and ready for sale at the show. <br>

If you absolutely can't do the dress rehearsal, then the 135 from the back of the auditorium can work well. An f2.8 or faster lens is required, I tried my 70-200 f4 on a monopod but most of those pics really sucked. Here's a shot with the 135L f2.0, some cropping, on a 30D -- the 8x10 looked great.</p><div></div>

[ejder]

<p>Do you know the shutter speeds necessary to freeze the motion?</p>

<p>Do you know the shutter speed you can achieve in that environment?</p>

<p>Do you know how close you will be able to get to the subjects, and what height you will be shooting them from?</p>

<p>Without this information the only suggestion that can be given is "buy fast, long lenses and shoot high ISO." Everyone can give that information, but it is not helpful in a final decision.</p>

<p>If you check the venue in advance, you can find out what you need...otherwise, any professional paid work requires an investment that may include a new camera and the fastest lens you can buy for the purpose. This may be a 7D and a 70-200 f/2.8 or 135L, it depends on your situation. The 7D can be bought used for $1k and the 135L goes for somewhere around $750-$850, so together they cost less than the 70-200 f/2.8L IS v2.</p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>My very first semi-professional work, back in the '70's, was shooting productions such as you're describing and selling pics to participants. I can absolutely guarantee you that you have to scout out the venue ahead of time to answer your questions. Nobody here can do anything but guess whether there's enough light to do what you need to do. I would suggest enlisting the help of an assistant to dance (or at least jump around) on stage to figure out what sort of shutter speed you'll need. Personally, for fast motion like that, I probably wouldn't shoot any slower than 1/500s with available light. More likely, I'd try to arrange a shoot at the dress rehearsal and use an array of off-shoe flashes on radio slaves to freeze motion.</p>

[missc]

<p>Thank you all so much for your kind responses. Much food for thought. I was pondering on renting, your comments have convinced me on that front. I need to experiment before making such a big investment on a lens. Also, upgrading my camera might indeed be a better investment for me at this point. I didn't realize going from a 30D to a 60D could make a significant difference. I will look into that. Also, I will definitely be shooting at the rehearsal, great tip. Many thanks again.</p>