M43 vs P&S vs DSLR upgrade for low-light informal shots?

[divo]

<p>Although I usually shoot with a Canon 5D (orig.) and a full complement of lenses, I find that casual social situations (dinner or coffee in the evening) present certain challenges when I let my friends take pictures, too.</p>

<ol>

<li>Even the highest ISO on my 5D (orig.) can't handle dark restaurant environments well without flash, but frequent flash bursts iritate other customers.</li>

<li>My friends are not DSLR users and don't understand how to focus when using the relatively shallow depths of field required in these situations. My friends are mostly cell phone shooters that just point-and-shoot. </li>

</ol>

<p>So, I'm trying to decide what the best options would be for this type of social setting: sitting around a table in a dark restaurant or coffee shop with a mix of skilled and unskilled users passing around a camera.</p>

<p>My questions:</p>

<ol>

<li>Would an upgrade to a 5D II give me enough low-light capability (via extended ISO) to extend depth of field to a useable level for those not experienced with focussing a DSLR? I'm willing to accept some level of noice reduction in Lightroom, but there is a limit before skin just starts looking unnaturally smoothed out.</li>

<li>Do either of the other two systems offer a camera that sticks out as handling low-light noise particularly well in a package that is really easy for non-photographers to use?</li>

</ol>

<p>I intend to upgrade to a Canon 5DII or it's next iteration at some point in the future; however, I'm also wondering about the other two systems for their easy to slip in a pocket and carry back-up camera potential. Thanks for your thoughts.</p>

[leslie_cheung]

<p>I don't see the problem with shallow depth of field really. Set up your 5d with center focus and tell them to point at people faces and recompose. It should work unless you have like a 85mm 1.2 on it. Use a 28 or 35mm...</p>

<p>FWIW use a rough estimate of 1.5 stop incremental for premium p&s, m4/3rd, aps-c and FF dslr. </p>

 

[jcuknz]

<p>Why not buy a cellphone like your freinds instead of taking your DSLR where it doesn't belong.<br>

We frequently say it is the person behind the camera which is important not the tool.<br>

Is it really important that such photos have to be crisp sharp like our commercial or art work?</p>

 

[eric merrill]

<p>Devon:</p>

<p>If it's too dark for the 5D, it's going to be too dark for the current compact cameras in terms of noise at higher ISOs.</p>

<p>Best option for non-camera users in a low lit coffee shop is a mug of coffee. Low light is challenging. There isn't a point and shoot that anybody can operate that will give good quality photos in light dim enough to cause problems for the 5D.</p>

<p>JC, if it's too dark for the 5D, it's too dark for cell phone cameras.</p>

<p>Eric</p>

[divo]

<p>I love shallow depth of field people shots, but, having tried to simply explain the techniques involved multiple times (in a foreign language), I've come to the conclusion that I need a new approach (@Leslie). I also have a cell phone, but my friends have that angle covered masterfully! The person not the tool is exactly my point: my friends are enthusiastic and most want to give a DSLR a go, but they aren't knowledgeable about photography, and they tend to get lots of sharply focussed shirt fronts/booth panels etc. with blurry faces. I'm just trying to find the most approachable tool for absolute novices. In my experience, my friends are pretty happy when I present them with a shot of them that is nicely photoshopped and has a more polished look to it (@JC Uknz). It's become a way of sharing my hobby with my non-photographer friends and has generally been well received as long as taking pictures doesn't dominate the entire time spent together.</p>

<p>@Eric: Yeah, I kind of thought that would be the answer. Perhaps future upgrade to the 5DII (or III whenever it comes out) and use of Live View to explain the concepts even better will be the best option.</p>

<p>Thanks for your thoughts.</p>

[divo]

<p>Have been trying to attach an example, but it isnt' working. FWIW, JEH 01 in my people gallery. <a href="../photo/15078813">http://www.photo.net/photo/15078813</a> </p>

[steven_f1]

<p>Most of the pictures I looked that had EXIF data were taken with a 85mm lens and typically your aperture is around 7 to 8. </p>

<p>There are only two things you can do to get more light and more depth of field. Use a shorter focal length lens and use a wider aperture. Short focal length lenses for any given aperture will have more depth of field than a longer focal length lens. Shooting at a wider apeture will give you more light but reduce the depth of field. You will need to experiment with different focal length lenses and apertures to find a combination you will like. <br>

You can also crop in post to compensate for the greater field of view of a shorter focal length lens. </p>

[wayne_crider4]

<p>You need flash so just shoot a pic now and them if people start getting irate.</p>

[szrimaging]

<p>Try M4/3. I'm serious.</p>

<p>First, you can run a fast lens, such as the Oly 45mm f.18 (FOV is about a 90mm on your 5d), or other native, fast lenses. Then, the CDAF systems allow for face detect. So your friends point, let the camera find the face, and shoot. Just set the apreture open enough to let in a decent amount of light and go. Plus, they are much smaller, so, less stuff to lug around.</p>

[divo]

<p>Just to be clear... <em>only</em> picture JEH 01 (in that gallery) is shot under the conditions that I mentioned earlier. The others in the gallery are largly daylight portraits taken outside where focal length and aperature weren't really issues.</p>

<p>@Zach Yeah, I was wondering if face recognition and the smaller size would help my friends. Some of them struggle with a 5D and L lens combo. Thanks for the tip.</p>

[divo]

<p>OK. I moved that shot into a new folder and added another example taken by a friend which clearly illustrates the problem at hand. I took the shot of the woman. A friend took the shot of the man.</p>

<p><a href="../photo/15089892">http://www.photo.net/photo/15089892</a></p>

[jcuknz]

<p>Eric ... what is too dark is what the weilder thinks is too dark so I suspect that neither would find the light too dim but one expects more of the 5D and stops shooting when those results are not obtained. I had a level at which I didn't try with film and was delighted to find what my first digital could do becuase it didn't have my inhibitions :-) that first digital was on a par with a cellphone.</p>

[jcuknz]

<p>Devon ...I suggest that your freind didn't know he was not supposed to move the camera after he got focus confirmation. The man's face is soft his clothing seems acceptably sharp. That is a training problem not equipment :-)</p>

[divo]

<p>@JC: Yup, it's a training problem. You're preaching to the choir. I stated that in the OP. It's my friends that don't know how to use a DSLR. I've explained it to them, but there is a language barrier. It doesn't stick. They just point and shoot.</p>

<p>I think really the best thing for this type of informal social gathering would be a smallish camera with whatever is currently the state-of-the-art low-light abilities that has a large viewscreen for composing and face recognition to solve the focusing issues that my friends experience. I will now post somewhere appropriate for recommends on what camera meets these specs.</p>