Filming with the Canon 5D MkII

[richard_barry6]

<p>Hi All,<br>

I guess these are all quite rudimentary questions but I would greatly appreciate anyone's advice and recommendations. I've been using my 5D primarily for photography although have recently been trying my hand at film- something I intend to stick at in the long-run.<br>

Firstly, I wanted to find out whether there are any settings that should be set or changed in the camera when using the 5D for film and what mode works best. I've been using M mode. I don't entirely understand the difference between 1920 by 1080 etc but that is what I've been using. Is there a huge difference between the various resolutions and what about FPS?<br>

Secondly, I was wondering if there was a way of getting a slower shutter speed than a 1/30 second.<br>

I recently shot some footage in Indonesia and have been editing it in Final Cut Pro X. I have found the footage slightly grainy- a feature I wasn't expecting for full-frame HD. Is this because I haven't done a particular step in post-production to smooth out the imagery? I haven't managed to find an action to diminish noise on FCP. When I click 'render all' nothing appears to actually happen. I have found AF in film on the camera pretty hopeless too. Is there a sure-fire way of filming in AF that actually works? I have been filming in Live view- is this recommended and how can one shoot through the viewfinder?<br>

Pretty much any advice whatsoever regarding filming on the 5d MkII would be marvelous. Hope someone can help.<br>

Cheers, Richard</p>

[Stock-Photos]

<ul>

<li>I read that with a 7D, ISO for movies sets itself automatically <em>unless </em>the camera is in manual. 5D MKII might be the same</li>

<li>There is no auto focus while filming, as far as I know...</li>

<li>You cannot see through the viewfinder because the mirror is up</li>

<li>I bought a Hoodman device to better see the LCD while filming</li>

<li>The highest resolution will give the sharpest results when viewed on HDTV or computer</li>

</ul>

<p>One of my short movies made with the 7D is here:<br>

<a href="http://vimeo.com/29074000">http://vimeo.com/29074000</a></p>

<p>DSLR video tips:<br>

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHKZ_enUS432US432&gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=DSLR+movie+tips">http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHKZ_enUS432US432&gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=DSLR+movie+tips</a></p>

[brad_trostad]

Hi,

 

Last thing first, I use premier pro so I can't help you out on the rendering problem.

 

Resolution: there are basically two different high definition screen resolutions and 2 or 3 frame rates supported by

DSLRs with video capability. The first number is the number of pixel columns wide (horizontal). The second number is

the number pixel rows tall (vertical). The 5d2 only supports one HD resolution of 1920 wide by 1080 tall. This is

commonly called 1920x1080 or just 1080p. The 'p' means progressive in that the entire frame is updated in one scan

versus the old tv style of interlacing. The second common HD resolution is 1280 x 720 or often just 720p. The 5d2

doesn't support this but the t2i, t3i, 60D do.

 

Frame Rate: this is the number of frames captured per second. For 1920x1080 you can select between 24p and 30p.

That just means 24 or 30 full frames per second. Actually, for editing and other purposes it is actually 29.97 frames

per second (for 30p). And I forget the actual 24p number but the point is when editing make sure you select this

matching number or the editor will work hard to convert 29.97 to exactly 30 and you may not like the final video and

audio results. There is also 60p for 60 full frames per second but this is only usually available with 1280x720p as trying

to do 60 frames per second at 1080p (1920x1080) would exceed the encoding bandwidth. And about 24p - that is the

standard cinema frame rate thus it's importance for all the film makers out there.

 

Shutter speed. Basically it's limited on the slow end to 1/30th because any slower and the next frame would have to

start before the previous one ended. The most quoted rule of thumb for shutter speed is to use 1 / (2 x frame rate). So

for 30p (1920x1080 or 1280x720) you would use 1/60. For 24p you would ideally use 1/48 but DSLRs don't have this

option so most people use 1/50. Now, if you will be filming where there is 60hz lighting you might want to bump up to 1/60 to

avoid flickering. I believe this calculation comes from something called the 180 rule which comes from the film world.

You asked about going lower - even if you could (to get more light) you probably wouldn't want to because each frame

with any motion might have too much blur to watch. Going the other direction, you might be tempted to use really fast

shutter speeds in bright light (and in this case you can) but you get this overly choppy look. So, if filming a lot outdoors

in bright light bring along a few ND filters!

 

Autofocus: As was mentioned, the cameras really fast dedicated opto-electrical sensors for still photo autofocus are

blocked by the mirror during video. So the only way to autofocus during video is to use the image itself. These images

are very big and only arrive every 1/30th of a second. Plus the SLR lenses are big and can have a fair amount of

mechanical travel. Put it all together and it might be quite awhile before autofocus during video on DSLR matches that

of the dedicated camcorders.

 

Live View. As you have learned, live view is actually your only way to monitor recording operations. But thus can be

hard to see during daytime so people often add a loupe as mentioned earlier. The other option is a external monitor

plugged into the mini HDMI out. Unfortunately the 5d2's video out is reduced from 1080i to 480 when the record button

is pushed (fixed in later models). So judging critical focus during a shot with a 5d2 isn't easy.

 

Picture Settings: Just as you can edit picture style settings for photos using the cameras menus, these settings also

apply to the video. And although the defaults may look good on the small LCD screen during playback - when editing,

it leaves you less flexibility during editing as the effects of these settings are already compressed into the data. Do a

quick search on vimeo or YouTube for best picture settings for 5d2 video and you will find walk throughs on best

settings. Basically you will be backing off the sharpening, saturation, etc.

 

Depth of field: This is both your friend and enemy. A shot can look amazing with shallow depth of field but that same

shot may seem almost impossible to capture if there is motion. If you know you will have a lot of movement of the

subject, then try to increase depth of field. Since the shutter setting is already pretty much locked down, having to stop

down the aperture to increase DoF means you're down to just two variables - ISO and adding more light. And if you

want shallow depth of field outdoors with such a slow fixed shutter speed you will need ND filters to cut down the light

- often quite a bit of ND.

 

ISO: I think ISO to 1600 (for video) looks great on the 5d2 and I'm sure you can go even higher but I try to stop there

for now. I don't think you'd want to go over 3200. The shadows and blacks at 6400 don't look very good IMHO. It is

also mentioned on many forums and tutorials that the best ISO to use for 5d2 are multiples of 160.

 

Rolling Shutter: All the DSLRs are suffering from this. Basically anytime you have fast motion from left to right - when

played back vertical lines will look angled. So DSLR videographers try and avoid these types of very fast horizontal

pans or fast horizontal moving objects. I believe this is also called the Jello effect.

 

Manual Mode / Preset: With so many parameters pretty much pinned down, it's best to use manual mode and then

adjust aperture and iso as needed. With all the picture style settings, I find it's really easy to keep it under control

using one of the 3 user presets on the mode dial. Just set it all up and save it. Then with the flip of the mode dial you

are ready to go.

 

White Balance: With raw still shots you can redo this with no loss. But video is always compressed on the DSLRs so if

the white balance is wrong when recording starts it will take effort to restore (and may not always be possible) . So,

it's best - when possible - to get the WB / color temp set before recording.

 

Rendering: It seems like you are better off if you match the new video project to the exact same resolution and frame

rate of the raw video. Then do the editing and then convert down / up as needed when exporting. Here are just a few

suggested output / export settings you can try. Let's assume your original clips are at 1920 x 1080 at 30p.

 

Target Example # 1: H.264 Blu-Ray at 1920 x 1080 at 30p:

Use the same width, height. Set frame rate to match at 29.97. Select the main / color profile to 4:1. Use a bit rate

between 30...45Mbps. This will generate a huge file but look awesome on a blu-ray player or fast PC with good video

card and monitor.

 

Target Example # 2: Windows Video (WMV)1920x1080 at 30p:

Use the same width, height. Set frame rate to match at 29.97. Use bit rate of 8...10Mbps. The file will be 1/3 of the

previous example but will look surprisingly good and is somewhat download friendly.

 

Target Example # 3: IPad iPhone 1024x576 at 30p:

Use a width of 1024 which match's the iPads width. The corresponding height will be around 576. Match the original

frame rate of 29.97. Set the main/color profile to 3:1 (this is important). Keep the bitrate around 3.5 to 4.5Mbps.

 

A Simple Example:

Here's a Canon 5d2 1920 x 1080 at 30p example converted down to iPad format. This short example was done for a

friend who was having some fun with his Fender. Shot at 35mm, shutter of 1/60, ISO's between 800 and 1250.

Apertures between f2.2 and f2.8. And one crappy light camera right! Post processing included color balance, saturation

and sharpening. The 1920x1080 version looks very sharp. But color balance is still off and probably a bit too much

sharpening.

 

http://www.amazonbeach.com/films/samples/DecemberTracks_iPad.mp4

 

I hope some of this helps you get started.

[KenPapai]

<blockquote>

<p>One of my short movies made with the 7D is here:<br /><a rel="nofollow" href="http://vimeo.com/29074000" target="_blank">http://vimeo.com/29074000</a></p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Nice video Jim and great editing. I especially like the boiling mud pots!</p>

[richard_barry6]

<p>Brad, you are a legend. The answer I dreamed of receiving you have provided.<br /><br />I did some research on FCP X and it turns out it's renowned for its lightning speed rendering whilst you're working, so that fixes that.<br /><br />Great little film. Your mate rips at guitar. In Indonesia I shot mainly surfing at 30fps, and my question now is should I be shooting that at 1/60 second. Generally the rule of thumb for shooting stills of surfing is never slump below 1/1000 second- which is round about the shutter speed I used when I filmed; probably even faster too. I went to upload my edit onto Vimeo before but it said it was going to take 600mins so I aborted. I'll try do it later on. I'm going to have to search on how to amend the export options on FCP because it appears I can only make it happen as an H.264, and not Blu ray too. For approximately 1.45 of footage, the file size was 210MB- in full HD- so I'm not sure if that's about right.<br /><br />I nabbed a few frame grabs from the footage and they appear considerably unsharp/blurry despite the footage seeming pretty clear when it's played. Is this normal or could this be attributable to having the wrong shutter speed set at the time? What strength of ND filter do you recommend for a bright day? How do you sharpen your footage? On FCP I found I could only drag a sharpen effect onto the frames.<br /><br />Thanks in advance!<br /><br /><br />Cheers,<br>

Richard </p>

[brad_trostad]

I'm glad to hear you've found a good fast editing program!

 

 

I think the blurry individual frames you are seeing are in part due to your using the slowest allowable shutter speed of 1/30. Individual

frames of HD video are only around 2Mp and quite compressed at that, so another part of the lack of sharpness may be due to that

to. I think the end goal to keep in mind is that you want some blur or it will look to choppy. Thus the 2x frame rate rule of thumb.

However, if you want the choppy look you can definitely use much higher speeds - no rule against that. Plus higher shutter speeds will

reduce the need for as much ND in bright outside clips. But I think you will not be pleased with shutter speeds above 1/200th or so.

The best way to find out is to record some footage at various shutter speeds and discover your limit.

 

 

 

For neutral density in bright sunlight, I think you would want as much as 3 stops available. It seems a lot of people will have

something in that range and then a circular polarizer in front of that in conditions like you mentioned around water. If you are filming

surfers fairly far away then using a smaller aperture may not be such a big deal and thus less need for the ND. It's when you want

really shallow depth of field shots in bright light that you'll need to knock down the light since the shutter and aperture and already

locked in. I was using the cokin slip in filters but the color cast is pretty rough especially when a few are stacked so I will probably get

a few nice screw on ones instead.

 

 

Regarding file size, the camera will record around 5...6 MBytes per second. That is for 1920x1080 at 30p or 1280x720 at 60p. If you

were to simply re-render it right back put in the same encoding you should get a similar size. In your example you had 105 seconds of

video which took about 210MBytes or about 2MBytes per second. If you shot 1280x720 at 30p this might be close to right.

 

 

Regarding the H.264 and Blu-ray don't worry about the blu-ray for now the H.264 is what you need. I don't know FCP but I'm sure if

you poke around you will find the settings you need. Usually, you can hand type different frame widths and heights and it will convert it

for you when exporting it out to a file. Somewhere on the settings are usually adjustments for the average and peak bitrates. These

are what you will be adjusting depending on where you are exporting too.

 

 

For vimeo, I believe anything above 1280x720 at 30p will be converted down by them after you upload to their server. Also, I think

they try to keep the maximum bit rates capped at 5MBit per second. So you would ideally edit your footage in the as recorded format

and then adjust the export settings to roughly match the vimeo requirements when rendering for vimeo. Also, the vimeo settings seem

pretty close to the iPad settings so one should get you both if you want to copy directly to an iPad or stream the file directly from your

own website.

[jack_the_hat]

<p>Brad tells it exactly as it should be and certainly knows all the ins and outs. Depending on how deep you want to get involved, if you just want to mess around and end up with half decent results then here are the basic ground rules I stick to:</p>

<p>Always shoot in manual mode. Try and keep your shutter speed twice that of the FPS e.g. when shooting 25p use 1/50sec shutter speed. Auto ISO is very useful. Always balance your exposure using your aperture or ISO when possible. Use ND filters if you want a wider aperture rather than increasing shutter speed.</p>

<p>While Final Cut is the ultimate editing program, for ease of use I just use iMovie. Some people scoff at iMovie simply because it's free with any new Mac. That doesn't make it poor, it's an exceptionally good piece of software and, when you know how, you can edit and export full 1080p if required.<br>

My first ever serious video shoot was for a band in The Netherlands. I shot the whole thing in less than 24 hours on the 5D2 and spent a week or so fiddling around with the footage in iMovie. I think you'll agree that the results are every good, especially when you consider it was a first attempt and that I ignored all advice about ditching iMovie in favour of Final Cut. I simply didn't have the time to learn how to use Final Cut. You can see the video <a href="

By the way, 90% of the footage was shot with the 50mm f1.8 at ISO 3200 and 6400.</p>

[richard_barry6]

<p>Cheers Brad and Jack the Hat.<br /><br />All great advice. One thing I'm still unsure of is whether faster shutter speeds are still required- like in stills- for action/sports or if I should cap it at 1/200sec. I'm just concerned that I'll get motion blur.<br /><br />Great film Jack. I managed to upload my first attempt at film and production to Vimeo yesterday: <a href="http://vimeo.com/33821214">http://vimeo.com/33821214</a> <br>

I hadn't used a film tripod before so I'm not sure whether the jittering is attributable to my amateur hand or the fast shutter speeds I was using; possibly a combination. As far as I'm aware I shot it all at 1920 x 1080 at 30fps. Perhaps my expectations of razor sharp resolution with film on the 5D were a little high.<br /><br />Cheers again guys </p>

[brad_trostad]

To Barry & Jack & J Harrington... Awesome videos!

 

 

For Jack: I haven't had much luck with auto ISO - are your scenes always static lighting and thus not changing while rolling? I really

liked your video.

 

 

For Barry: if that was your first try well it was awesome dude! It looks to me like you've got the hang of it already. You commented on

the higher shutter speeds. As I watched the surfers, I feel like the shutter speeds were a bit fast - or you had sped up the motion a bit

more than 1x in some scenes?

 

 

Perhaps this is related to your comment of sharpness of the video or individual frames. If you want individually sharp frames then

much faster shutter speeds (or very static scenes) will be necessary. But, Each frame can only be so sharp when only 2MP and

compressed. However, if there is motion in the sequence, It just seems to look more natural with some degree of blur and hence the

2x frame rate rule of thumb.

 

 

For being entirely handled it was way steadier than I could ever pull off!

[jack_the_hat]

<p>For Richard: Good video. I think the jittering in your video is probably a combination of an unsteady camera and a fast shutter speed. I never use a fast shutter speed when shooting video, I find that it never looks natural and it always picks up any movement in the camera platform. Try shooting at 30fps using 1/60sec shutter and maintain that whenever possible. Also keep your hands completely off the camera when shooting (unless you're shooting handheld of course). When using a tripod, wind is your biggest enemy... try and get it sheltered.</p>

<p>For Brad: Like I said, the video I did was my first ever attempt at video so I was learning as I was shooting. As far as I can remember, the lighting did not change much during that shoot. In one scene a band member forgot to wear his black gloves (an essential part of the storyline) and this was not noticed until I was back in the UK. I managed to give him his gloves back using Photoshop CS3 (now that was a steep learning curve!)</p>

[richard_barry6]

<p>Haha Brad, it's definitely not handheld. I'm pretty sure with the nights we had over there, if it were to be, it would be unwatchable. I didn't phrase it too well but it was my first time using a film tripod, and I had the pressure too high on the panning function.<br /><br />Thanks for the compliments. I'll try slower shutter speeds next time and see how it works out. I imagine giving a guy a glove in video would be a world of fun Jack!<br /><br />Cheers </p>

[dan_south]

Great info! Thanks to all of the contributors! !