Hand Holding Medium Format SLR?

[robert_kramer]

On a whim, last year I picked up a Rollei TLR and have become quite

addicted to this camera in particular and the medium format in

general. I am loving the results from those big negatives! The

thing is, I am wanting to get beyond some of the limitations of the

fixed lens camera. I love using wide angle lenses, and it appears

the cost of a Rollei-wide is WAY beyond all reason. So I am trying

to decide between an SLR or one of the rangefinder 6x6 or 645 cameras.

 

I am somewhat drawn to the SLR cameras, but after handling a few in a

local shop, I wonder how useable they are for hand-held photography.

My style of photography for the most part does not involve a tripod,

so I was hoping you all could offer some insights. How slow a

shutter speed can you get away with a 6x6 or 645 SLR when hand held?

Are certain brands better with dampening vibrations at slow shutter

speeds than others? How about an older focal plane shutter SLR vs. a

newer leaf shutter model (the older Bronicas in particular seem guite

reasonably priced, but I bet they kick like a mule)? In the past I

have heard people comment that a 'Blad is just about useless if not

on a tripod, so I am a little concerned.

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

Bob Kramer

[ecarter]

I have a Kiev 60 medium format camera, and though I've not had a whole lot of time yet to get used to it, I don't usually find that there's a problem handholding it - for daylight shots. The mirror slap is noticably more than with my 35mm, hence more vibration, but I haven't run across handholding problems much in daylight conditions.

 

When in doubt (shutter speed 60 or below) though, I do tend to use mirror lock up. I don't know about the 'blad, not having worked with it, but I don't see any real reason why MF SLR's can't be used handheld.

 

I should note that of all the MF cameras I've seen though, the Kiev-60 most strongly reminds me of 35mm SLR cameras, albeit a big and ugly one.

[andrew_schank]

The Pentax 645 is as handholdable as my Nikon 35mm Slr's.

[frank_bunnik]

Anton Corbijn uses Hasselblad and says always to work handheld, never using a tripod. By using a tripod your pictures might be sharper but handheld they can still be very sharp.

 

If you like the TLR concept, why not buy a secondhand Mamiya 330? They are offered a lot, are cheap and reliable and offer the possibility th change lenses. Make sure you get the black lenses and not the chrome ones since the chrome ones are not as good.

[jim_reed]

I use a Hasselblad 501 C/M with a 45 prism viewfinder, and I don't find it difficult at all to hand hold. It's just a matter of learning how to position your hands, and body, so that you get the steadiest hold. I find that being able to bring the prism viewfinder up to my eye helps in that regard.

 

Like any camera, you get the steadiest hold on a tripod, but many situations don't permit that, and the Hasselblad is not difficult to use when the situation calls for hand holding.

[barry schmetter]

I think it's much tougher to get critically sharp images with a MF SLR than a rangefinder. I love my Hassy to death, but let's face it, that big mirror does have a kick. Handholding a MF SLR throws away a lot of the MF adavantage. If you *know* you're not going to be using a tripod, I think it makes a whole lot better sense to get a rangefinder-- maybe a Mamiya 7 or a Bronica 645 RF. If you can live with a fixed lens, the Fuji GSW 690 kicks some serious MF butt and I've gotten incredibly sharp handheld shots with the "Texas Leica".

[nicholas_wybolt]

Robert,

 

I regularly hand-hold a Hasselblad 503CW with the PME45 and Winder. Prior to getting the Winder, handholding was initially awkward but became easier with practice. Once I added the winder, handholding became much easier and more comfortable.

 

A lot of the 645 format SLRs have the same feel, so you may want to rent different models to try them out.

 

-Nick

[paulrumohr]

"In the past I have heard people comment that a 'Blad is just about useless if

not on a tripod, so I am a little concerned. "

 

This is a little strange because I know many who choose these cameras

because they're more hand holdable than say an RZ.

 

With 6X6 you don't have to rotate the camera and introduce unsteadiness for

verticals, and you can brace the camera against your chest for additional

stability. It does take some practice to work and feel comfortable with a

Hasselblad, and it's not intuitive if you are use to using 35mm SLR.

 

Robert, did you use a body/back/WL/lens combo or did the camera dealer

hand over the Hassy with everything except the kitchen sink attached? If the

latter was the case, you might want to try out the simpler configuration- With

the meter prism and winder it can get pretty unwieldly.

 

Don't forget about the handy MLU right under the winder for super slow

speeds!

 

Another thought is that if you are using wide angles (Hassy 40, 50, 60mm),

you should be able to get away with slower shutter speeds than you've been

use to getting with your normal lens.

 

Good luck!

[ellis_vener_photography]

I find Hasselblads (at least the non motorized ones) to be very hand holdable,

same with the Pentax 6x7, especially for aerial work. but truth be told if I am in

a situation where I'm goingto hand holding a camera at less than 1/60th of a

second I'm going to be using a Nikon. The Mamiya, Contax and Pentax 645

cameras in my brief experience with them also are very much designed to be

used handheld -- but I think 6x6 format is far more versatile.<P>But what is

your "style" of photography?

[diegobuono]

I can use my hasselblad handheld without many problem if the shutter sped is 1/60 and up. If you don't use the tripod try using mirror lock up (with a little of practice is simple), in this way I use the 'blad handheld with 1/8 or 1/15 too. The tripod allows to obtain the max sharpness of zeiss glasses but I think you can get wonderfull picture without the tripod too. Despite someone says I think that using an heavier lens allows to minimize the wibration of the mirror (if MLU is not used), over all if the camera is held at waist level. In this case use the shoulder belt to pull down the camera, in this way you'll contrast the mirror slap.

[richardcook]

You have your choice, of course, with a system camera like the real Hassy. You can readily use a waist level finder with these cameras and many people do. THe rangefinders are a bit different and the Pentax 67 or Mamiy 7 series will take some getting used to -- mainly because of teh rangefinder itself. But this is something that you might well be able to figure out through a weekend camera rental. By the way, keep the Rollei TLR -- it will only become more valuable.

[roger c]

An ETRSi makes quite a reasonable snapshot camera (in touristy places everyone just thinks it's a video camera). I've handheld at 1/30 with the 75mm lens with no problems. Do yourself a favour though - get a prism.

[bas1]

I too am comfortable with 1/60, will go 1/30 but then you have to be prepared to accept the odd blurred shot. I also use 1/30 with MLU handheld if the situation allows. This works well. Below 1/30 I prefer to use my Leica.

 

Handholding is not uncomfortable, just different if you come from an SLR background like me. Now that I'm used to it I'm fine with it. Intially I wanted to have the winder to increase the comfort level, now I think that is a waste of money. Still might get it for the speed, which in portraiture can be useful. By the way I shoot with a Hasselblad 503CW with 80 and 150 lensses.

[scott_hicks2]

I have found a monopod to be a nice intermediate between hand holding, and a tripod. The monopod is mobile and very useful when you need to get down at eye level with children � especially when you have a Quantum flash perched on a flash bracket.

 

Obviously there are situations where hand holding is fine, or a tripod is better � but nice to have the option.

 

Scott Hicks

[david_goldfarb]

I hand hold my reasonably priced Bronica S2A, sometimes as slow as 1/15 sec. dispite the triple shutter shake (falling mirror design requires a shutter to cover the mirror and a shutter to black out the finder in addition to the focal plane shutter), but a lot depends on your technique and how much you plan to enlarge and how much camera shake you're willing to accept as a visible artifact of the circumstances necessary to produce a photograph in available light.

 

If your style depends heavily on handholding the camera in available light, I'd go with a rangefinder or TLR with interchangeable lenses or a dedicated wide camera like a Brooks Veriwide to accompany your TLR.

[benny_spinoza]

Waist level viewing aids in handholding a camera. You already have that experience with your Rollei, and as you probably know, by supporting it on your chest, stomach, or belt, and with a strap around your neck, you can hold it with very good stability. The Hassy is not much different, and there isn't much mirror slap. For speeds less than 1/125, I push up on the mirror release button with my right hand forefinger, and then release the shutter with my left hand forefinger (I cradle the camera with my left hand), at which point you have only the leaf shutter working when the film is exposed. The ergonomic design of the Hassy makes this very easy. Of course, for critical pictures, use a tripod. But you can take wonderful handheld pictures with a Hassy using the waist level finder.

[robert_kramer]

Thanks a lot for all the responses. They are much appreciated! I may just go the rangefinder route, as most of my 35mm stuff is done with rangefinder cameras, so it is something I am certainly used to. But there is something very appealing about ground glass waist level viewing in medium format for me. I think I will rent both a mamiya 6 or 7, and a 6x6 SLR for a weekend and give them both a test drive.

 

Oh yeah, and I will definitely keep the Rollei TLR. I love that camera... just wish it had a 60 or 50mm lens on it.

 

Anyway, thanks again.

 

Bob

[struan_gray]

<p>While using a tripod undoubtedly leads to sharper photos,

sharpness isn't everything, and even the blurriest snapshot

benefits from MF's improved tonality. All MF SLRs are

handholdable in some sense, even the Fuji monster, so it's

really a question of how much blur you can tolerate and how

strong - or wily - you are.</p>

 

<p>However, if your main interest is wides not teles, you might

want to look at the MF rangefinders. You have to trade off the

reduced vibration against the lack of fast lenses, but in general

rangefinders are easier to handhold.</p>

 

<p><center>

<img

src="http://www.sljus.lu.se/People/Struan/pics/millybeachbw.jpg"

width=500 height=500 alt="Fast moving little target">

</center>

 

<p>I use my Kowa a lot handheld, both when chasing kids and

when travelling light on a trip whose primary purpose is not

photography. The kids laugh at the tripod, dancing inside my

minimum focussing distance as soon as they see my finger

twitch towards the shutter release. With a 150 or 250 I can get

acceptably sharp prints in daylight, and actually have some hope

of keeping up with them.</p>

 

<p>In the end, only you can tell what is "good enough". Rent a

current SLR for a weekend and give it a whirl. Mamiya 7s are

quite widely available for rent too, so get one of those too if you

want to compare the two options. Some places will let you

recoup all or some of the rental fee against a purchase, so shop

around.</p>

[negro y blanco fotógrafo]

I'd recommend a 500 series camera-I use a new 501. It's great and has everything you need in terms of versitility-changeable backs from 6x6 to 645. Very bright screen, a mix of metered/non-metered prisms not to mention some of the best glass, hands down. I shoot handheld 99% of the time and walk around with my around my neck-keeps me in shape! No, really, I don't find it heavy and the camera's weight has a good feel to it. I'm able to squeeze off 1/30th shots hand-held with mine and 1/15th with my monopod. You can find a well priced outfit on eBay or if you're a student you can by one from Hasselblad with their student packages. Good luck-Marc Manley <a href="http://www.marcmanleyphoto.com">www.manleyphoto.com</a>

[www.antiquecameras.net]

Pentax 67 with 400 speed film is easily hand-holdable ( heavy though ). As long as you shoot at 1/125 sec and above I have never had an issue - sure it wont be nearly as sharp as on a tripod - but come on, a 6x7 neg handheld still will easily be comparable and likely better than a 35mm lens on a tripod..<p>

 

<a href="http://www.antiquecameras.net"> Antique & Classic Site

[leica ron]

Depending on your shooting style and what you like to shoot, a rangefinder might right up your street.

 

As a general rule I handhold my Mamiya 6, it rarely sees a tripod, although I do have a Kirk-plate for it (but that's another story). As rangefinders don't suffer from mirror-slap the 1/focal-length rule for a hand-held minimum shutter speed doesn't really apply. I've produced many shockingly sharp images and the '6 is way easier to handle than my Nikon F100 with vertical grip.

 

The only downside is with parallax error on close-up shots, this is where an SLR cannot be beaten. But to be honest I think I've messed up three shots out of fifty rolls due to this short-fall.

 

As many '6 owners will attest, once you use this camera you'll absolutely love it.

 

It's widest lens is a 50mm, if you need wider the Mamiya 7 has a 43mm.

 

Good luck !

Ron

[picturesque]

I just switched from a Mamiya C330f TLR to a Hasselblad 503CW with a prism. At first, I was worried that I couldn't hand hold the Hasselblad at 1/30th of a second with the 80mm lens--something I need to do when I shoot weddings. On the Mamiya, I could hand hold down to 1/15th of a second reliably (but not with anything longer than the 80). I watched a colleague of mine shooting with his Hasselblad, and I tried what he was doing, which was to use the Hasselblad bracket with the built-in release. I found that cradling the body in my right hand and letting the weight settle on it, and triggering with my left hand worked pretty well (this assumes you have a bracket--doesn't have to be Hasselblad). The key was to let the weight of the body settle in the hand--this helps dampen the "kick". You could also use your thumb to trigger. The Wildi book says to brace your forehead on the prism or finder. This also works well. Since I use the Metz SCA TTL module mounted in the prism's cold shoe, I find that it makes a convenient rest for my forehead with the 45 degree finder. This would work without a bracket, and one could even construct a forehead rest to go into the cold shoe if the SCA module is not needed.

[greg_smith4]

I was in the same position as you. I like to do hand-held work, but do use the ti-pod every now and then. I ended up with the Bronica Sq-A. I never used it hand-held untill recently when my tri-pod broke. I shot off a few rolls of Tri-X and Tmax 400. They were both very charp and I was very suprised. I got beutiful 8x10's with them. They are very clear. I'm sure if you enlarged them more there might be a difference. While actually holding the camera it's not too heavy or bulky. I'm not that strong and my hands aren't too big. It's not too much more than my Nikon F2 with a 105mm on it. I used nothing below 1/125 with these. If you are going to do hand held work more frequently you might go with a 645. I really liked the Pentax 645. I'd still like to get one one day.

[greg_smith4]

One more thing. I too find the Bronica to be comfortable while holding. It fits well in the hands and is easier to compose.

[godfrey]

I shoot with a Hasselblad 500C/M+80mm f/2.8 lens. I generally prefer to use a tripod for sharpness, but there are times when I just go for a photo walk, shooting street scenes hand-held. The WL viewfinder and square format do very well for me, I love the perspectives they allow.

 

I've never had any problems hand holding the Hassy, even comfortable, and get sharp results when shooting as slow as 1/30 second.

 

Godfrey