Is a Contax 645 going to deliver when it comes to hardcore travel?

[cimino55]

Hello All,

After months and months of deliberation I actually follwed the

advice of several fellow photo.net members, and actually went to a

camera show in Boston to try out some of the cameras I wanted to take

on my trip. This was an excellent idea, and it helped me definitely

exclude 35mm format for my trip to Thailand and Nepal. My main

objective is to go to Thailand and Nepal/Burma and get some print

quality shots. I am planning to enlarge to 11x14 and even 16x20 of

mostly lanscapes and environmental portraiture. My fellow photo.net

members have given me great advice as I do not know everything at age

27. I thank everyone for the responses. So I have decided to get

into Medium format and get a 645. I especially like the Contax

645!!! I am really not worried about the weight issue, as I will have

the standard 80mm, a wide angle, and a telephoto 140mm. I have been

going to the gym, and have given myself a year to get in shape for

this trip. I hear some people say that they try to buy

lightweight/inexpensive camera gear, but my mentality is that in

order to get the job done, as I am considering this a job, as I want

to sell my prints, that you have to just do it! If someone in their

50's can take a Mamiya RB67 trekking, that gives me inspiration. I

am a minimalist when it comes to clothes, and I have chosen my

clothes that serve dual purpose so I can afford to take good camera

gear and not be bogged down. I liked the Contax it felt right, I

tried it out for about an hour, and it feels great in my hands. It

is not too heavy, and even has autofocus. It can take a digital back

if my photography gets to that point, and to top it off, it has Zeiss

lenses. I do have some major concerns however, and I hope that

people who have the Contax 645 can alleviate some of the anxiety

before I buy this beauty...

 

I have read numerous posts and people have mentioned that

battery drain is a major issue. I plan to go backpacking for 2-3

months and I leave for Thailand on September 15/25 somewhere around

that time, and be in Nepal until December. I know that Thailand is

humid and I am somewhat concern about the environmental effects that

humidity has on lenses? Also, I am thinking about the effect that

cold has on batteries? I know that Contax has an external battery

pack that you can tuck away in your jacket and keep the batteries

warm, but is this necessary if 2CR5 batteries are available in

Thailand? I am only asking this question because I am about to spend

over $4000 on this camera and accessories and I want to be damn sure

it is going to do the job wherever my travels may take me.

Also, not to get off the point, but do you think it is more wise

to buy used, or is a more feasible option to buy brand new including

the warranty? I know that I do not have all the answers, as I am not

totally omniscient and I am looking for advice on this matter. Will

the Contax 645AF handle the rustle and bustle of trekking in the

mountains of Nepal at -10F and be fine at 85F in the humidity of

Thailand giving me the results (11x14 and 16x20) prints? If so, I

have reached camera bliss... Thank you for all responses.

 

Sincerely,

Adam

[don]

Adam: I have no experience with the Contax 645, but I would submit that your application is *exactly* what rangefinder medium format cameras such as the Mamya-6 and Mamiya-7 were made for. I can put my Mamiya-6 with 50mm, 75mm, and 150mm, all in a very small waist pack. Reliability problems are simply non-existent. If you go that route, be sure you get used to rangefinder focusing before your trip.

[fotografz]

I have and use all the cameras under consideration. So, rather than ponder

all the pros and cons of each, I simply said to myself "what would I take

if I were going where you are going?"

 

35mm...it would be a Leica M6.

 

Medium Format...it would be a Hasselblad CM without all the junk

added on.

 

For both, I'd take/use a handheld meter.

 

None of the above need batteries to operate.

 

Both are proven time again in the worst of conditions.

 

Both offer repairs/rentals in out of the way places.

 

Both can be bought used with plenty of choices.

 

Both are metal and rugged as can be.

 

Both offer top level optics throughout the whole range

of lens offerings.

 

Probably not what you wanted to hear, just what I would do.

 

All the others, including the Contax and Mamiya7II, are fine cameras.

I know, I own them also.

[david_f._stein]

I agree with Marc. Also, even though this may seem like a "once in a

lifetime trip," you can't do or take everything. Your best time will

be spent learning where you are and getting along with people-the

pictures will then flow naturally. Grab all the postcards you can-now

you know what not to take. Thus, I think two lenses are

sufficient-I'd rather have a second body or both the Leica and the

Hasselblad. Definitely, manual cameras. The fancy stuff is for

expeditions that have lots of resources and back-up. GOOD L

[ilkka]

Getting batteries is not going to be a problem in Thailand. At least not in any reasonably sized city. Probably not in Kathmandu and Pokhara either, but in more remote locations of Nepal, I would carry a large number of spares. Film is another issue. A motorised AF camera is going to eat up those 120 rolls pretty fast, and 220's are often hard to find in Asia. Bangkok has some good labs that can do MF but I wonder about Nepal.

 

I have been using a fully electronic Fuji GA645 for some three years now in tropical conditions without a problem. But I would not take one as my only camera on a trip like that. Some kind of backup would be necessary, even crucial as you consider your trip as a business. Getting your Contax fixed in Thailand is going to be difficult, and in Nepal impossible. Also, personally, I would be a bit hesitant to carry such an expensive piece of hardware in rough conditions like that. Are you going to carry it with you all the time? Do you ever leave it into your hotel room when going out for lunch or dinner? What if you drop it? Good insurance coverage should eventually pay for the damage, but it will take time before you get your camera replaced.

 

Your clothes need to do triple duty if you plan to use the same in hot and humid tropical Thailand, subtropical Nepal in lower altitudes and sub-zero temperatures high up. Looks to me like you are talking about a major expedition. In my experience, if you try to go too easy on clothes, it will hinder your ability to take good pictures, or care for your camera.

 

I sound a bit negative, but that is just because I have spent months in Thailand and weeks in Nepal. Wonderful places. But a bit rough going for us ordinary folks. I would choose my equipment accordingly.

[ted_roberts]

Hi Adam:I have to agree with Marc also. I own both the Contax 645 and several Hasselblad 500 series, and the Hasselblad is my camera of choice. Both are quality cameras but the weight and need for batteries especially with the trip you are going on should be an important consideration. Maybe you should lug the C645 with 2 lens and a supply of 2CRS's around for a weekend before deciding! As for batteries my experience has been very good...depends on how much you use the AF. I shot running horses last month and used 14 rolls of 220 with plenty of life left in the batteries.I too would rather have an extra body or a light 35mm for backup. Have a great trip!Ted

[cimino55]

Hello,

This is Adam, the poster of this question. It sounds to me, and as I have been told, that if I want to go on an expedition, I should probably consider a 35mm Rangefinder like a Leica M3 or M6. My main concern, is if I will be able to produce quality sized prints, 11x14 and 16x20 with a 35mm system? What do you think? Obviously I could just put the Leica in my jacket pocket, even take it to dinner/lunch and hide it if necessary. It is all starting to become clear...

[fotografz]

Adam, go to the Leica forum here on photo.net. There are some mighty

fine photographers that travel with a M camera to all sorts of exotic

places. I make 13 X19 ink jets from Leica film all the time. Depends on

which film you use and the look you're after. As far as distroying a Leica

...buy it new with a USA Passport and they'll replace your camera. All

you need is the part with a serial #. If you want that MF look and feel, I

still stick with the Hasselblad CM recommendation. Zeiss optics. Proven

reliability.

[c_yu]

I also suggest to carry a second body. In this way, you can have a backup even you run out of batteries. If you are talking about "jobs", reliability is also a major factor.

 

I got a Mamiya 7II recently and its light weight is very attractive. Handhelding the camera still gives me very sharp pictures. However, I still need to get used to the characteristics of RF.

[feli]

Tricky choice here and I hate to sound negative, but I'm with Marc Williams on

this one.

 

The Contax is a very nice camera, but if I were going on your trip, I would be

a little hesitant to lug a camera that is completely battery dependent, packed

with lots of electronics, and not sealed like a Canon or Nikon, in to a very

harsh environment. Especially if you don't have a backup body.

 

Either way, if you are going to insist on taking a medium format camera I

would take a mechanical one like a Hasselblad 500cm. They have been to

the moon and back and there are no electronics in them that can get fried in a

downpour or due to high humidity. Batteries would also be a mute point and

you still get Zeiss lenses. Get a good handheld meter (maybe even a combo

spot/incident job) and you're in business. The medium format used market is

pretty low right now and you can probably get a very nice setup for a

reasonable price. Heck, you may even be able to get a cosmetically rough

backup body thrown in for very little money. Don't be turned off by gear that

may have the odd scuff or two on it, as long as it is mechanically and optically

sound. After a few weeks on your trip everything is going to be scratched

anyway and you'll save a chunk of cash. Have a technician go over

everything and you are off. Keep in mind that not all Hassy backs take 220!

 

I have never owned a Mamiya 6 or 7, but have friends that have dragged

them across several continents and they appear to be very robust. Again, get

it checked before you go. The lenses are superb, but slow and keep in mind

that it is a rangefinder.

 

As far as 35mm goes I think the Leica is a very good choice. Small, nearly

indestructible, mechanical, only needs tiny D76 batteries for the meter and

maybe the best lenses in the format. The lenses are also much faster than the

vast majority of medium format lenses and this may become an important

issue, when you are out in rural areas. You could pick up a Bessa R2 as a

cheaper backup body, just in case. Maybe you can rent a M6TTL for the

weekend and see if you like it. If a rangefinder turns out to not be your cup of

tea, but you still decide to go with a 35mm system, you could always get one

of the mechanical Nikon SLRs. Photojournalists have dragged them through

hell and back and they always seem to work. Even the professional electronic

ones like the F3 - F5 are designed to take a beating. The glass is maybe not

as exotic as that from Leica, but millions of professionals can't be wrong. It's

great stuff. Nikons are also comparatively cheap.

 

I shoot with a Leica and 11x14 enlargements look superb. 16x20 is feasible,

although it probably is the practical limit for 35mm and the negative should of

course be nice and SHARP and in FOCUS (as it would have to be in any

format). I have blown up images that I shot with 100 asa BW film to 16x20 and

they look great. Of course medium format looks better, but then again 4x5

looks better then 6x6. The issue here is the difference between a print looking

"great" and "greater".

 

Keep in mind that a single roll of 220 film looks very compact. A brick worth of

220 takes up a lot of room...

With a 6x6 you get 24 shots on a 220 roll. 35mm film cartridges are smaller.

You get 36 exposures on a roll and some type of 35mm film is available

almost anywhere. I can't remember the last time I saw a one hour photo or

tourist trap that sold 120/220.

 

I'm not sure how much experience you have metering by hand, but keep that

in mind if you get a mechanical camera with a basic meter. If that is going to

be problem, maybe you need a pro level electronic camera like a Nikon F3 -

F5 that has a more sophisticated metering system...

 

Always remember that it is the content of your shot that counts, not that you

can see every eyelash on the lama.

 

 

 

Have fun on your trip!

 

 

feli

[ilkka]

Do not forget a good tripod. A good tripod for a rangefinder or leaf shutter camera is much smaller and lighter than what is needed for a focal plane shutter MF SLR. If you try to compensate using MF SLR with its slow lenses by using faster film, you lose much of the advantage of that larger negative. For landscapes, you need to stop down, maybe use a polariser, and you are quite soon looking at 1/2 s or longer shutter speeds. There is plenty of light in the tropics, in the middle of the day, but the best light is at dawn and dusk, or in the shade.

[andrew_ito]

I'll offer a little different opinion. I have the Mamiya 7 with 65 &

150mm lenses and a Fuji GA645zi rangefinder. I bought the Fuji

around 2 years ago and it's served me very well. Because I

wanted to enlarge beyond 20x24, I felt like the Mamiya was the

better camera for my backpacking and travelling trips. No doubt,

the Mamiya is a great camera. The lenses are EXTREMELY

sharp. I mean noticeably sharper than most of my large format

gear. However, for me, the Fuji was so much more compact and

versatile that I couldn't bear selling it. If you want something

incredibly compact, yet with great features the Fuji 645zi is

probably one of the best travelling cameras you can get. It's got

a built in 55-90mm zoom (f/4.5-6.9 so it's a bit slow) but if you are

shooting landscape and stuff anyways, it works out fine. I also

liked the way the viewfinder zooms as you zoom the lens. The

viewfinder also has framing lines that move as you focus. With

the Mamiya 7, the 150mm lens was somewhat difficult to focus

and the framing takes some getting used to. I also had to factor

in the cost of the Mamiya and personally felt that for my situation

I'd be better off with a Fuji GSW690 and some longer lenses for

my view camera in addition to my 645zi so I'm selling my Mamiya

7. Anyways, I'd recommend the Fuji 645zi. It's a very lightweight,

high quality alternative to an slr system with 2 lenses. Oh, and it

goes a looong way on the 2 lithium batteries that it uses. I've

only had to change the batteries once or twice in the 2 years that

I've had the camera.

[marios pittas]

Adam

 

In truth I would have liked to have said: "Forget the 35mm stuff and take MF stuff.. ", BUT if you lived around here (South East Asia) for a while and have seen a tropical thunderstorm in all its glory (!), maybe, just maybe you do want to consider what Mark suggested.. a lighter manual camera which when a bit of water goes on it (or when the post-downpour huminity hits it) it does not die... It doesn't rain around here.. it comes pouring down!!!

 

Personally, I am not in the Leica camp, I would say get one of those old Nikon champs, something like an F3, or an FM2.. stick on a manual lens..

 

Also it is highly recomended that you bring water resistant bags, so if and when the rain comes your camera equipment are safely somewhere..

 

A Contax or a Mamiya may have their electronics fried... {bold} I {/bold} know, I spend $550 Singapore dollars ($310 USD) in repairing my electronically sick RZ!!

[duncan_ross1]

If you calculate the weight of the batteries you will need, the Contax won't be an option. Weight is an issue if you are walking for weeks carrying all of your tuff. If I were you , I'd stick with light weight and simplicity as you will have little or no opportunities for repair. I'd take 2 bodies and 2-3 lenses - something that can easily be done with the Mamiya 7 camera. Batteries on this camera last long and the camera is fairly weatherproof (I have hiked in weeks of wet weather with the 7 and 7II). Having the second body prevents missing opportunities.

 

If you are an SLR fan, the hassleblad is pretty light. While not as simple as the Mamiya, it's probably the most basic SLR available.

 

Don't forget the tripod you will need for either camera. The choice of camera body may dictate the choice of tripod. It would be a good idea to buy or rent whatever you think your choice will be now and do some treking locally. Take a 2-3 day walk with a system and see what you think.

Duncan

[edsel_adams]

I field used a CAF when they first came on the market.The electronics are very sensitive to moisture etc,Id look elswhere for a trekking camera.

[jay_.]

I would use my Rolleiflex TLR before my Hasselblads in such an application. IMO no MF SLR will do justice to itself handheld. If you're going to set up a tripod for each shot, and pop the mirror, then fine.

[alex_p._schorsch]

Everybody seems to be critisizing your decision. I think you could go Contax, but bring a lot of batteries. With the contax you're going to have the feeling that you are on a PHOTOGRAPHIC trip, not just taking fotos ON A TRIP. If you went Mamiya 6 or 7 you'd be travelling with less hassles, but if you decide to go the Contax way, three recomendations: 1) Pamper your camera , treat it like your newly-wed beautiful wife. 2) Buy the zoom lens which will be awesome for landscape. 3) Pack it in a Lowe-Pro or similar backpack - do not use a camera bag which will cause severe shoulder problems, distribute the weight of your gear in a Pro Backpack with adequate padding to protect your gear. I'm sure you can do it with a sack of batteries. Good Luck and nice shooting you lucky bastard.

[william_carter1]

To answer your question about the Contax 645 specifically: in my experience, yes it will stand up to the conditions you describe as long as reasonable care is taken. I took my Contax 645 Kit to Ghana for several weeks last summer -- no problems at all, with the exception that the rubber eyepiece thingy came unglued, presumablydue to heat and humidity. Other than that, no problems. Where I was in Ghana, it was VERY hot, dusty and humid, and I traveled in bumpy buses on back roads.

 

No problems with battery drain -- I took 4 extra lithium batteries but only went thru 2 of them. I also had the battery grip loaded up with AA batteries, but only used them briefly after the first lithium died. I'd estimate that I shot about 50-60 rolls of 120 film.

 

I'll add one last comment: there are shots that I did not take because it was too much of a pain to switch lenses, for example. Also, there are some shots where there was camera shake -- not enough to ruin the shot, but enough that it was noticeable when I starting printing, especially at larger print sizes. While I really liked the COntax 645, and it works great, and it's more ergonomic than most other medium format cameras for handholding, there's a more limited set of conditions where you will actually use it, and use it well, in travel photography. Having gone this route for my trip to Ghana, if I had to do it again, I'd go with a 35mm camera, a great general purpose zoom, and several primes. If I needed 11x14 or 16x20 prints, I'd scan the film and use Genuine Fractals of Photoshop interpolation if necessary to get the larger sizes.

 

But, if you're committed to taking the Contax, again, go for it -- I think it will work reasonably well, as it did for me.

[bob_chong]

You've been asking about what camera to buy for three months now, and you keep getting the same answers over and over (Mam6/7, Leica, Fuji, TLR, Hassy, etc.).

 

The best thing you can do now is just buy a camera--ANY CAMERA--and start using it. That way, by the time you get to SE Asia, it will be an extension of yourself. You'll look back on all these questions and smirk at your former naivete and silliness.

 

(And if you're buying used, you can always sell it a couple months down the road if you don't like it...and get back every penny...the used MF market can serve as a nice rental system that way)

[wayne_crider4]

Ok, so it's been a couple of days since people have been

suggesting what camera to buy, and since dying down I hope

that in the meantime you have let it go of it for a couple of days

so you can approach your decision with a fresh look.

 

I was wondering, in all the remarks to date to your questions,

what are the things that you have learned that you feel will help

you the most? Or are you just as confused as ever?

[ShunCheung]

To me, any medium-format cameras wouldn't make sense in this kind of trip. You want something small and rugged. Moreover, you want to get your film developed easily locally. I know this is the Medium-Format Digest and I love my Contax 645, but I would bring a 35mm SLR and a few lenses.

[paul_mongillo]

Adam, I think you will be sorry you decided to lug the Contax 645, three lenses, tripod, and several months supply of batteries and film around with you on an extended backpack trip. If you were just doing day hikes I would not hesitate to take the Contax. My girlfriend has the set up you are talking about and has lugged it around Mexico, India and Nepal for extended periods, but never overnight backpacking. I occassionally shoot with it and absolutely love it. It is a battery burner, but it has withstood heat, cold, dampness and a fall off the tripod...It is very well made and takes exceptional photographs. I mostly shoot large format. My girlfriend and I took a 3 week road trip to Utah last October. Just for grins we weighed her Contax backpack and mine. Her Contax 645 bag came in at 28 pounds to my large format bag full of gear at only 24 pounds. If you start out at 28 pounds before you even add food, shelter and clothing to your pack....well you get the picture. I would definately be looking at rangfinder 645's for and endeaver like this. Stop worrying and get a camera. The sooner you get it and use it, the more comfortable you will be with it on your trip. It is much more preferable to take a camera with you that you are familiar with than one you have not used before. Good luck and have a great trip !

[erol_a.]

If it's not too late...

About a year and a half ago, I went through the Himalayas and India with two Nikons and a Contax 645. When trekking, will you have pack animals? If not, go light. Factor in that you'll probably get sick at least once also. Carrying a heavy load of gear, clothing, and food on a dysentery and cholera ravaged body ain't gonna happen. You probably don't wanna ask me how I know. ;)

<P>I was 20 years old travelling for the first time when I went so I made a few of the newbie mistakes, and the effects they took on me showed in the pictures. My favorite image was made on the Contax, but the Nikons made up the huge majority of my work- a good 35mm camera is just so rugged, fast, and versatile that it's hard to go wrong. Look at Nachtwey or Salgado; they're not often shooting under the best of conditions and their 35mm work is stellar.

<P>RE: the Contax - keep the electric contacts everywhere clean. Mine would randomly cut out, and what would fix it? Cleaning the contacts on the film back. If you get the Contax, consider the battery/vertical grip a required purchase - it improves the ergonomics and the battery life. I didn't have trouble with battery life even in extreme cold, but again I was relying mainly on my 35s. You may have noticed that the 645 has that brief "warm-up" time if you've left it sitting for long. That warm up time prevents it from being a fast-reaction camera; I just leave mine off and turn it on when I see a shot. Works for me.

<P>The 645 is a great camera. But don't take it alone; you're just leaving yourself open to missing a lot of shots. It and a small manual 35mm with say 35 and 85mm 35 lenses would be a great team, maybe a wideangle if possible. Drop me an email if I can tell you anything else.

[tony_clark]

The Contax 645 is an outstanding system. Yes, it will go through

more batteries than you can carry and the cost of those batteries

are $14- $18. each. The Mamiya 7 is considerably lighter, easier

on batteries and it produces 6x7 images. I certainly wouldn't look

forward to carrying the Contax for a weekend, let alone a 2-3

month trek from Thailand to Nepal. My first choice would be the

Mamiya 7 and then a Nikon or Canon 35mm kit. With such high

quality scanners and films available, the 35mm kit will produce

outstanding prints. Good luck