matt_sachs Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Greetings, All: The attached photograph is no prize-winner, but it illustrates a problem I am having with a Noctilux lens at f1. Specifically, not only is there vignetting, but there are color-shifts that do not correspond to the vignette. Is this performance typical for the lens? I purchased mine used and do not know whether it is example-specific. Thank you, Matt<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflesher Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 The vignette looks about right for the Noct at f1.0 in fairly bright light. However, the reddish vertical banding does not look normal. I can't decide if it is some type of flare from an overhead light, or if perhaps it is an issue with improper shutter travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_schank Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Almost looks like the film is slightly fogged. Does the redish band stop at the edge of the frame or does it continue outside of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_sachs Posted November 25, 2002 Author Share Posted November 25, 2002 Strictly at the frameline and strictly at wide aperture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_schank Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 I'm still wondering if some stray light isn't getting through a the shutter somehow, with the big f1.0 lens opening collecting just enough light for it to show up. Do a test: With the camera set at f1.0, aim it towards some bright lights (not the sun!)for a few moments, then take a shot with the cap on/in the dark on that frame. Check later to see if any light shows up on that particular negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 The vertical color shifts happen with certain types of electrcal lighting AND when using a SLOW speed focal plane shutter like the Leica M has. I get the same effect at our local indoor hockey rink when using my Leica M; my friends Leica; or THREE of my Zorki,s and my Russian FED too. This effect doesnt happen with my Nikon F as much; and is missing with my Nikkormat; or Bessa R; or ANY leaf shutter camera I have ever used there. The effect happens with all lenses; and never happens with normal lighting outdoors.<BR><BR>Some indoor lighting has an output that varies radically over the 60 cycle AC sine wave. The Leica synch speed is close to the 60 cycle period; and one gets a weird banding. I have noted this for 5 years here at our hockey rink. I will post a photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 135mm F3.5 Nikkor LTM @F3.5 On Leica M<BR><BR>Note vertical amber and blue bands.<BR><BR><IMG SRC="http://www.ezshots.com/members/tripods/images/tripods-181.jpg"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Cropped section of above frame hides the vertical bands. <BR><BR>There is not shutter problem; all speeds are ok. <BR><BR>Shutter speed for photo 1/250 sec.<BR><BR>Problem doesnt happen at all rinks! and doesnt happen at the local new basketball court either!<BR><BR><IMG SRC="http://www.ezshots.com/members/tripods/images/tripods-182.jpg"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Compare Matts bands:<BR><img src="http://www.photo.net/bboard/image.tcl?bboard_upload_id=10333084"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_sachs Posted November 26, 2002 Author Share Posted November 26, 2002 Dear Kelly, Thank you for providing these data. It seems that your explanation covers why the problem would "disappear" when I stopped down the lens because I reduced the high shutter speed (1/500) -- things got better as shutter remained open longer, presumably because the synch issue improved. It also explains the arbitrary positioning of the bands on different frames of the same section of arena. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Matt; try your camera body and lens under different lighting; Your photo sure appears like the gremlin I have been researching the last 5 years! Better arenas and sporting lighting has the load/lighting banks on three separate AC phases; if they have 3 phase power (most all do) . When the lighting is on three different phases; the ripple variation is smoothed out; and color problems will be greatly reduced. Another benefit is reduced eye strain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Matt; most of my hockey shots at 1/250 have the band; sometimes I do shoot at 1/500 and 1/100 too. The band really shows up on the white ice alot! <BR><BR>With my Russian Lennigrad LTM motor drive camera; the banding is REALLY horrid. Maybe the shutter transit time is slightly different than the Leica. <BR><BR>Got to scoot; will recheck this thread in the morning. <BR><BR><B>I posted these same two photos with a question about "Have any banding problems with Leica M shutter with certain Lighting?" and the thread got zilch for responses last summer; and got deleted as a useless thread!</b> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_piper2 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Nice piece of collaborative diagnosis by Drs. Sachs and Flanigan! I've seen the inverse effect appear with HIGH sync speed shutters (Nikon FM2, etc.) where entire neon signs disappeared because they were in the 'off' stage of the 60Hz cycle as the shutter slit exposed them. The corner vignetting DOES look Noctilux-normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas k. Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Yes, that horrible vignetting is part of the Noct's wonderful "signature." The vertical bands? Kelly's explanation sounds right on. You can get a similar effect sometimes by shooting a TV screen at certain speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iván Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 What a site ! ! ! I love it. -Iván Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rowlett Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 Yes, I agree with Ivan. This type of thread is what makes it all worthwhile! Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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