Light Meter Question

[rosalesgallery]

<p>Hello!<br>

I have a Canon AE-1 (not the program) and I noticed something interesting. When I adjust the shutter speed my light meter will give me a reading. It will either go up or down, however, when I adjust my aperture my meter won't budge. I've tried this with all my lenses (20mm, 35mm and 50mm) with neither of them will the needle budge. There's only a change in metering with the shutter speed. Do these cameras not have aperture metering? I read a question on here regarding aperture reading not being included until the 1970's and i'm not sure what year my cam is and if it falls under this category...So far I've been able to guess my f/stop and get good exposures but it's a pain in the but.<br>

If these camera's do not have aperture/shutter metering I might have to buy myself an external light meter...or just memorize a general f/stop to shutter formula to save money but gain some headaches! lol<br>

Thanks in advance!</p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>Can it be that the lens stays at maximum aperture until the moment of exposure? I used Canon SLRs for decades but they were earlier than the A series.</p>

[rosalesgallery]

<p>Wow! I just figured it out...it wasn't broken or anything, but, it turns out, there's a little sliding button to the left of the lens and that needs to be pushed IN for the iris to actually open and close...thus giving me a reading!! LOL! Boy do I feel...dumb. I've been scratching my head over this for weeks now.</p>

[jeffrey_e]

<p>What you describe Roger is exactly how the camera is designed to work. If you point the camera at a neutral gray subject and meter, it will give you a reading of the correct aperture for the shutter speed you've selected.<br>

The lens is set for full diaphram metering (hence the FD) designation and the aperture won't move until the moment of exposure.<br>

If you push in the lever you get stop down metering for use with items such as FL lenses and bellows units. That will not give you a proper reading on regular FD lenses.</p>

[rosalesgallery]

<p>Hhmm...I'm a little confused Jeffrey.<br /> When I push the lever in I'm able to adjust my aperture and actually see the iris open and close. My light meter will then adjust as I open or close the aperture.<br>

<br /> This is what throws me off:<br>

"If you point the camera at a neutral gray subject and meter, it will give you a reading of the correct aperture for the shutter speed you've selected."<br>

The reason I'm confused is because when I adjust my aperture my light meter gives me a reading as I move it around. If I understand correctly, what you're basically saying is that whatever reading I get according to any aperture changes will NOT be accurate?<br>

I'm going to do some research on FD lenses to get a better understanding of this but I appreciate your help Jeffrey!</p>

[jeffrey_e]

<p>Hello Roger:<br /> The lever activates a mechanism that over-rides the mechanics of the lens and it permits the aperture to be opened or closed down. This is called "stopping down" the lens, and it allows for "stop down metering". This is what you use when you use something like a bellows unit that separates the lens from the body of the camera. You adjust the aperture or the shutter until you get a reading of 5.6 and that is the reading for a neutral gray exposure. You'll note that next to the 5.6 reading through the viewfinder there's a little square. That square is the stop down metering indicator.<br /> In other words, it doesn't work for regular metering.</p>

<p>What you do for normal photography is press the shutter button down half way. That triggers the meter. The needle moves and that tells you the aperture that you need for the shutter speed that's already selected. <br /> So first, select a shutter speed. Then point the camera at your subject. Then press the shutter button down half way. Look through the viewfinder and the needle will show you the correct aperture. You then adjust the aperture on the lens.</p>

<p>This assumes that the subject is more or less mid-tone. If the subject is brighter you'll have to open up a stop or more, if the subject is darker you'll have to close down.<br /> Start here:<br>

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/SLRs/ae1/</p>

<p> </p>

[thomas_goehler]

<p>Jeffrey is right in general, but he forgot that the AE-1 normally is supposed to operate in Tv mde (Time value), meaning you select the shutter speed and the camera chooses the appropriate aperture. Thus, you do not adjust the aperture when working with an AE-1 in the supposed mode. You set the lens on "A", select a shutter speed - preferably one that will not shake the camera too much, i.e. something faster than 1/60 - press the shutter button halfway down, read the aperture selected by the camera and readjust the shutter speed if he camera chose an aperture that does not suit your fotographic intention.</p>

<p>All this can also be read in the normal user's guide for this camera which can surely be found somewhere on the net. Check butkus.com!</p>

[awahlster]

<p>READ THE MANUAL gee's</p>

[jeffrey_e]

<p>Thomas, I made no mention of how to use the camera in automatic mode because I don't use automatic settings, and the question related to adjusting the camera manually. If I thought it was a question about how to use it automatically, I wouldn't have answered because I've no idea.</p>

<p>Two more points. <br>

1 The round bottom button on the right side of the lens also triggers the meter. Push in that button and turn the shutter speed dial. You'll see the aperture reading through the viewfinder move.</p>

<p>2 In addition to permitting stop down metering, the stop down lever permits one to view a scene and actually see the depth of field possible with various apertures. The viewfinder will get dark at the small apertures, but your eyes will adjust.</p>

[thomas_goehler]

<p>Jeffrey, as the AE-1 is not really meant to be a camera that operates fully manual - because it's clumsy without a proper match-needle metering - one should stick to the semi-automatic mode. Any explanation beyond thsi is likely to confuse the TO, especially when it comes to stopped-down metering.</p>

<p>TG</p>

[jeffrey_e]

<p>Thomas: I'm afraid I don't understand why you believe the AE1 is not meant to be operated fully manually. That's the way I've used mine for years and years. I cannot see how match stick metering would help - the way the meter works provides the actual aperture, and because it's a needle moving on a scale, in addition to showing full stops, it also shows half stops. Frankly, I can't imagine an easier camera to use manually. But like everything, to each his own, if you find match stick meters easier to use, I won't argue the point.</p>

[thomas_goehler]

<p>Jeffrey, of course you may use the AE-1(p) in full manual mode, but as you never see the actual aperture in the viewfinder, but only the aperture the camera suggests, it is not a very satisfying way of using the cam fully manual. This is a fact that is often criticized about these cameras in forums worldwide, and frankly, if I want to have full manual control I use my F-1N or my FTb or my AT-1.</p>

<p>Or do we misunderstand each other? What I call manual mode is when you set both the shutter speed and the aperture manually, without using the "A"-position on the lens. If you do this with an AE-1, AE-1p or with an A-1, you have the problem that this is not a very comfortable full-manual mode which you have with other cameras such as the above mentioned ones. Let's say, you want to use f/5.6, so you set the aperture on the lens to 5.6 and then look through your viewfinder. Let's also assume you have set the shutter at 1/125. Light conditions being as they are at that moment might then tell the camera CPU - bearing in mind that the AE-1 works with shutter priority - that f/11 would be best for 1/125. And this is what the camera tells you in the viewfinder: there is no info about the actual aperture and no info how many f-stops you are away from the correct shutter/aperture information. That's what I mean.</p>

[jeffrey_e]

<p>Right, thanks Thomas, now I understand what you're saying. I've no experience with any cameras other than the AE1 and AE1P and so I've no comment on whether it would be easier to use them. I'm sure you're right.<br>

By full manual mode I mean exactly what you describe. I've used an AE1 and an AE1P for years fully manually. I believe that I have perhaps shot one or two pictures in all that time on "A". No idea what got into me to even bother to try it, but I did. Truth be told, I've no real idea how to use the cameras in automatic mode. I understand what the modes are, I know how to use them and all that, but with the exception of the one or two shots mentioned above, I've never actually used them so I've no experience with them. When I shoot flash, which is very rare, I also set the flash manually.<br>

I generally use the in-camera meter, I set the aperture and shutter speed and I shoot. From time to time I use a hand held incident meter. It simply never occurred to me that it would be any advantage to see the aperture through the viewfinder. And yes, after I set the shutter and aperture, I ignore what the meter tells me. </p>

[thomas_goehler]

<blockquote>

<p>And yes, after I set the shutter and aperture, I ignore what the meter tells me.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Jeffrey E, now you've got me confused: how will you ever get correctly exposed photos when you always disregard the meter and just set time and aperture the way you like it? As far as I understand your posting you must have got zillions of either under- or overexposed pictures the way you do it.</p>

[jeffrey_e]

<p>Thomas, sorry. This is the problem with being a little to quick to and not providing a full explanation. It causes confusion. Now I'm going to confuse the original poster even more confusion. I apologize in advance if I make things worse. What follows is not a full explanation, but it should do.<br /> <br /> Provided that the brightness range in the scene is say 5 stops (and no more than say 7 stops) I generally take a meter reading off something in Zone III or IV, adjust either or both shutter and aperture to provide me with the exposure I'm looking for, place the camera on a tripod, compose the scene, <strong><em>i</em></strong><em>gnore the meter reading that the camera now gives me</em>, and release the shutter.<br /> <br /> If there is nothing in Zone III, I'll take the reading off something in Zone VII and compensate accordingly.<br /> That's what I meant by ignoring the meter. I decide on the exposure first, using a Zone System approach which involves taking a meter reading off a selected porton of the scene, set aperture and shutter to get what I want, and I then ignore what the camera thinks the right exposure is.<br /> <br /> If the brightness range is 7 stops or more, I decide which is more important shadow or highlight detail and I set the exposure to capure what I want and I allow either the hightlights to get blown out or the shadow to get blocked up. <br /> If I'm shooting monochrome, I use the time honoured approach of ensuring sufficient exposre in the shadows and processing for the highlights. This will more often than not involve a darkroom procedure that calls for split grade printing (say filtration at 1 and at 4) and if needed burn in the highlights. With film like Acros or HP5+ processed in D76 split grade printing may well do just fine without the need for burning in.<br /> <br /> There are folks who will tell you that to do this properly you need a spot meter and that the AE cameras are not suited to this approach. I've nothing to say about that. They're right in that a spot meter would be easier than the centre weighted meters in the AE cameras. I've just never gotten around to convincing myself to spend the money on a spot meter and I've learned the quirks of the centre weighted meter sufficiently to make this work.<br>

<br /> And if Roger has read all this, my advice is ignore everything I've said and enjoy using your AE-1. It's a wonderful camera.</p>

[jeffrey_e]

<p>On re-reading my last post, I should have added that it is often easier to hold back the shadow areas by dodging rather than burn in the highlights and I find that's very often pretty much all that's needed with split grade printing. If anything, I suppose that's the more usual thing I do.<br /> <br /> When I wrote the previous post I was thinking of landscapes where there is a great deal of sky in the picture. I find that a bit of burning in the sky is often all that's needed to prevent a blown out sky. Over the past while I've been finding that I'm happy enough with the results if I use an orange 15 and at times even red 25 filter. That not only prevents blown out skies, but also (sometimes artificiallly) creates drama. And that's the case even when a normal brightness range is exceeded and the Zone System afficianadoes will tell you that a compressed development approach is called for. Given that I shoot 35 mm in the Canon FD system, a compressed development approach is not generally the best way to go.<br /> <br /> And for all that, the centre weighted metering in the AE-1 works just fine. And because it's a TTL system, I don't have to worry about filter factors - I just use the meter in the camera. The only time I calculate exposure using filter factors using an AE-1 is when I'm using a red 25 filter and the ambient light is too low to easily see the meter. In those cases the AE-1P is a better camera because the aperture numbers are lit up.</p>

[thomas_goehler]

<p>Ok, Jeffrey, now I see your point. If you are using the zone system, then of course, everything you said makes sense. That's a different thing.</p>