About Quantum Q flashes...

[Life Photo-Documentaries]

<p>... I was wondering what make these flashes "special" > I have just seen few people using them and also seems to be too much not known by professional photographers.<br /><br />- Is it that have a the kind of reflector? <br />- Is the "beauty dish intended for portable flashes and head lights a kind of cheaper imitation ?<br />- what is so special about the kind of circular reflector?<br /><br />THank you so much for your inputs<br /><br />Juan</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Well for one thing, this type of flash tube does not suffer from thermal overload like most modern shoemount flashes. That's important to an event photographer.</p>

<p>The reflector has very good properties and not so good properties. It does not make the light any softer (flash used direct), other than the fact that the light source from one of these (Quantum Q, Lumedyne, Norman, Sunpak 120J) is a 4.5-5 inch diameter circle as opposed to the small rectangular shoemount reflector. Some people claim the light IS softer, but if so, it is from the fall off and extra light reflected off surrounding objects, walls and ceiling.</p>

<p>The reflector is a parabolic reflector however, so fall off is less severe, and the pattern in round. You can feather your light with this kind of reflector, which is not so easy or attractive with a shoemount reflector.</p>

<p>The flash tube is ultra efficient inside a softbox or umbrella, since it spreads light 360 degrees. The downside is that the flash only has 2 positions for spreading the light--wide and normal. You can get telephoto reflectors for it, but they are separate. Shoemount reflectors zoom to 4-5 different angles of coverage, and the narrower the angle, the more efficient the focusing of the light, so sometimes, even though the Q flash (and others) have more power than a shoemount, a shoemount at the 105 degree angle is more powerful, albeit the coverage is less and is not particularly useful outside of covering just the lens angle it was made for.</p>

<p>I don't know what beauty dish you are talking about.</p>

<p>I have 2 Sunpak 120Js and one Norman 200B. I really like the flash tubes and reflectors, but for my on camera flash, I use Canon 580EXs. I use the Sunpaks and Norman as off camera flashes.</p>

[john_deerfield]

<blockquote>

<p>... I was wondering what make these flashes "special"</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I am not so sure they are that special anymore, but more on that in a moment. For me, what /was/ special about the QFlashes: portable, battery operated flash a bit more powerful than a shoe mount flash with a better quality of light. Better quality of light provided by both the size of the flash tube and the parabolic reflector. </p>

<p>Now, however, I simply can't recommend them. One should take into account that a QFlash and battery is north of $1000. A Paul Buff Einstein, with parabolic reflector and Vagabond mini battery (not much bigger than a Quantum Turbo) runs well under $1000 and you have more power allowing you more flexibility in modifying your light. Drop down to an Alien Bee B800, and you can have a portable system still more powerful than anything but the strongest QFlash for just over $500 (as compared to north of $1500 for the 400 w/s Quantum and battery). IMHO, Quantum really needs to change their pricing paradigm in today's market. I don't know why anyone would buy into the system new.</p>

[peter_cohen]

<p>We shoot events and use Quantum Trios on-camera with the dome diffuser that spreads the light 180 degrees. Great coverage, less-harsh shadows and the huge, major difference is that we can shoot well over 1,000 images in a dimly lit, club-like room, as fast we we can focus and shoot, and there's no worry about overheating.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Quantum Qflash benefits:</p>

<p>Although pricey when purchased new, used Qflashes are often a great bargain. I recently bought a used Qflash Model T + Quantum Turbo for only about $200. If you need a lot of output (compared with that of a Speedlight's), in a compact form-factor, then the Qflash is one of the few options which fit that bill (another, being, Nadine's Sunpak 120Js). Here's the reasons I bought mine:</p>

<p>1. High-Watt second output: 300Ws, compared with an approximate,"equivalent" output of a Nikon SB-800 Speedlight, at 76Ws (as estimated by another photo.net member).<br /> 2. Compact and lightweight compared to other 300Ws monolights.<br /> 3. Bare-bulb illumination capability (optimum for softboxes).<br /> 4. Rapid recycle times when used with the Quantum Turbo.<br /> 5. Great bang-for-the-buck (output-wise), when purchased used.</p>

[john_deerfield]

<blockquote>

<p>1. High-Watt second output: 300Ws,</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Can you show me a link that supports this? I wasn't aware of a 300w/s QFlash. Most are between 80 and 150w/s with the X5D (with the right battery $$) being 400w/s. The T2 is 200w/s and that was an upgrade to the T.</p>

<p>Another advantage of the Alien Bee/Einstein: the ability to control the flash <em>from the camera position.</em> Either with Buff's Cyber Commander system or the Pocket Wizard Flex system. Adding this system to a small package and it still comes in less expensive than a QFlash system new!!! Of course Quantum has the Trio system, but the prices head north and the w/s head south.</p>

[frank_skomial]

<p><a href="http://www.qtm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=179&Itemid=301">http://www.qtm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=179&Itemid=301</a></p>

<p>Adjustable energy from 200 to 400 Wattseconds.</p>

 

[john_deerfield]

<p>That link verifies what I said: most QFlashes are between 80 and 150 w/s. The X5D is the <em>only</em> one that is 200-400 w/s and that is more expensive <em>and</em> requires a more expensive battery. I have a couple of QFlashes. I have 3 Turbo batteries. I have one 2x2 and one SlimTurbo. The only point I am making is that the QFlash, consider it's outrageous pricing, has lost it's appeal. There are better solutions available for less in today's market. </p>

[Life Photo-Documentaries]

<p>Nadine<br>

John<br>

Peter <br>

Ralph<br /><br />I do appreciate your inputs and time to comment my concerns. I do like different opinions because give e wider spectra of arguments to think about. <br /><br />Nadine, here is a link with beauty dishes... I Just recently got introduced to them by a photographer I am assisting... even when I "knew" the system but with no such fancy name!<br /><br />http://www.google.com/search?q=beauty+dish&hl=en&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=cNdTTtguwuixAvyikcUH&ved=0CD8QsAQ</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Well beauty dishes are different than the kind of parabolic reflectors on the Q Flash type of flashes. They have the deflector and are bigger. The ones recently made to 'convert' a shoemount flash into a mini beauty dish still have the deflector so the light quality is still different from a regular Q Flash type with parabolic reflector. The Q Flash type of reflector has been around for a long time. It isn't a cheap imitation of a beauty dish.</p>

<p>As for John's arguments, I will say this. While I agree that the Buff Einstein or Alien Bee plus Mini Lithium Battery are indeed great values, there are still reasons to like the Q Flash type of flashtube and reflector.</p>

<p>1. I do not place the same value on being able to change power level from camera position. It is nice, but isn't my top priority.</p>

<p>2. The flash tube on the Q Flash type flash is really efficient inside a softbox or umbrella--really. I like that. Makes the 150 ws power work at optimum.</p>

<p>3. The heads on the Q Flash types are much lighter (even a whole Sunpak 120J) than monolight type heads, and the battery packs are natural weights, placed on the bottom of the stand. I shoot weddings and on location, outside, in windy places, I can still use them with slightly more confidence that they won't fall over.</p>

<p>4. Used as an on camera flash or off camera, the tubes do not overheat. You also can't use those Alien Bees on camera very easily. You can use a Trio on camera. You can even use a Sunpak 120J on camera.</p>

<p>In the end, it depends on how you will use the flash.</p>

[john_deerfield]

<p>1. I <em>Love</em> being able to change the flash power at the camera position. We had an outdoor wedding Saturday where the sun kept going in and out behind clouds, varying our EV up to 2-stops. There were actually 2 advantages to the Alien Bee set up. One, I could use the shutter speed up to 1/500th of second and still have flash sync (tested with my cameras). I <em>loved </em>that. Two, the ability to drop or raise the power of the strobe one-stop (or more) from the camera. No more lowering the stand, changing the power, raising the stand, etc. </p>

<p>2. Arguable. I have a small Morris softbox (with baffle) and I don't see a difference between a typical shoe mount flash (SB800/900) and a QFlash. I also have the Quantum "softbox" for the QFlash and I don't like it at all, or at least compared to the Morris. No baffle on the Quantum softbox (more like a brolly). Finally, you are limited with the size of the softbox a Quantum can do. Unlike a monolight which will have power to spare. Even if we assume that a monolight bare bulb in a softbox isn't as efficient (and I don't see why not), the monolight will still have power to spare even if some power is "wasted".</p>

<p>3. Agreed, the heads are 2 pounds lighter. I have used both (QFlash & Alien Bee) on heavy Cheetah stands and at that point, neither worry me. Or perhaps I should say the worry is the same. However, outdoors, I really prefer using the beauty dish (the actual 22" silver beauty dish) on an Alien Bee at a wedding. Studier than a softbox, doesn't catch wind like an umbrella. And still a decent sized light source. In both situations though, I keep a sandbag handy. I'm not using a 22" beauty dish with a QFlash.</p>

<p>4. Agreed. A shoe mount flash can overheat quickly. But in my experience, if you are in a situation where a shoe mount flash is overheating, you probably need a more powerful strobe. And a Trio isn't any more powerful than any other good shoe mount flash (although there are other advantages).</p>

<p>Again, I have a couple of QFlashes. I had one, bought another. I must have liked <em>something</em> about them! But if I were buying a system today, I wouldn't even consider them. A Vagabond mini = $240 with 400 640w/s flashes (more at lower power). A Quantum Turbo SC = $466 with 255 150w/s flashes. </p>

[picturesque]

<p>John--when I talk about efficiency in a softbox, I don't mean in comparison to a shoemount. I mean, that 150ws is optimally used. I noticed that the 'real' power went up as soon as I took the Sunpak 120J reflector off and stuck the flash tube deep inside am umbrella. I don't mean in comparison to an Alien Bee either, although with an Alien Bee, the flash tube is still bunched on one side of a flat surface, and you need to focus the flash pattern into an umbrella.</p>

<p>As for the beauty dish outside--so shoot me--at distances greater than 5-6 feet, I do not see much difference between a beauty dish shot and the regular reflector. I use a 19" octagonal softbox on my Norman, and it makes a difference to about 5-6 feet, just like the beauty dish (surprise!).</p>

<p>Don't agree about the overheating. If your flash is overheating, I don't think it means you need a more powerful flash.</p>

<p>Again--it really depends on how you are going to use the flashes and what your priorities are. You are using them pretty much off camera, and it would be a valid argument for someone to figure that they would buy a Q Flash type flash to also have as a back up to their on camera flash. Can't do that with an Alien Bee.</p>

<p>If I hadn't already made my off camera flash choices, I may very well have gotten an Alien Bee or Einstein and the mini lithium. Very smart kit. But then, I would probably never know how much I really like my Sunpak 120Js and even my 30 year old Norman 200B. So far, I haven't been tempted to dump them for the Alien Bees, but I never say never.</p>

[studio460]

<p>John said:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Can you show me a link that supports this? I wasn't aware of a 300w/s QFlash. Most are between 80 and 150w/s with the X5D (with the right battery $$) being 400w/s. The T2 is 200w/s and that was an upgrade to the T.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I stand corrected. I believe the Model T is rated at 150Ws.</p>

[studio460]

<p>John said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>A Paul Buff Einstein, with parabolic reflector and Vagabond mini battery (not much bigger than a Quantum Turbo) runs well under $1000 and you have more power allowing you more flexibility in modifying your light.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, I agree, that an AC monolight, paired with a Vagabond Mini is an affordable alternative (I own two Vagabond Minis myself), but, the Qflash is still a more compact, lighter-weight system for those that need it. I think the Qflashes are an excellent location lighting tool (albeit, with less power than a monolight) where multiple sources are needed, and when traveling light is a priority. While the current Qflash line, purchased new, are extremely pricey, used Qflashes are often quite a bargain.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Forgot to add, re softbox size and Q flash type flashes--I would use the Apollo or Halo type--where the whole falsh goes inside the softbox, not the kind where the softbox sits in front of the flash, unless you have the shoemount type mounting kit, which takes the stress off the head.</p>

[peter_cohen]

<p>Michael Bass modified one of his horizontal flash mount brackets for me to use with a Trio. I'll post some shots of it set up when it arrives later this week. I really like his brackets that eliminate the hotshoe as the mounting point. Anybody who has a Trio knows how rotten the mounting mechanism is. This should provide excellent positioning of the QFlash/Trio inside the Halo and Softliter.</p>

[ian_casement]

<blockquote>

<p>1. I <em>Love</em> being able to change the flash power at the camera position. We had an outdoor wedding Saturday where the sun kept going in and out behind clouds, varying our EV up to 2-stops. There were actually 2 advantages to the Alien Bee set up. One, I could use the shutter speed up to 1/500th of second and still have flash sync (tested with my cameras). I <em>loved </em>that. Two, the ability to drop or raise the power of the strobe one-stop (or more) from the camera. No more lowering the stand, changing the power, raising the stand, etc.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That argument doesn't wash at all.</p>

<p>Quantums had remote radio control of power output, AND TTL before it was ever introduced for speedlights (or for AB's) or by using Radio Poppers or PW's (AB's don't do TTL at all). Quantum also control up to 400ws through a single head unlike the maximum speedlight 70-80ws. The remote power adjustment facility is just another facet of the Quantum system.</p>

<p>I can shoot up to 1/8000s with up to 400ws - entirely Quantum equipment as well, so 1/500 is no benefit.</p>

<p>With the Trio, Trio Basic, Pilot, T5d-r, X5d-r and the FreeXwire radio system to chose from (including the ability to control remote speedlights/speedlites using QLink within the Quantum system or use Qnexus with the proprietory i-TTL and e-TTL systems), these all add up to a really useable and versatile system. Not wanting to pay for it doesn't hinder it's capabilities at all, it just reduces your options if you don't have it.</p>

[gerald_kraus]

<p>Qflashes come in three versions. The Trio or Trio Basic which is designed (model specific) to fit into the hotshoe of a Canon or Nikon digital camera. While they have 80 watt seconds, they both have a guide number of 110 (ISO 100, feet). This compares to light output speedlights compared at the 50mm zoom setting.They work with any Turbo Battery<br>

The T5d-R uses the same reflector, same bulb and also work off any Turbo Battery. They are 150 watt seconds and have a guide # of 160.<br>

The X5d-R model uses the same reflector, but a different model flashtube. They do use the same reflectors as the T series Qflashes. They do use a different battery system, the Qpaq-X modular battery system. This allows configuring the battery stack to the requirements of the job at hand. You can run either 1 or 2 X5d-R heads at either 200 w/s or 400 w/s from one pack. ( Guide # of 160 at 200 w/s and 220 at 400 w/s.Take off the battery and slip on an AC power supply instead, lets say at a prom, where you will have the students coming up for pictures. Another module can be added to the stack that allows you to shoot with the battery and charge it at the same time.<br>

Then there are the various reflectors, light modifiers and accessories that can be added to any of the Qflashes.<br>

Their two biggest advantages are a better quality of light than speedlights and also the fact that they are portable (used on a camera hotshoe or on a bracket with the camera. They all work in TTL, auto or manual modes. They also do not over heat, turn off or sloe down when doing fast paced shooting like the speedlights do.<br>

But, the biggest capability today is that a Pilot (commander type unit) or a TRIO can be used in the hotshoe and control a mix of other Trios, T5d-R, X5d-R and either Canon Speedlights or Nikon Speedlights, by radio (FreeXwires and Qlinks) which means more capability and versatility to photographers. </p>

 

[peter_cohen]

<p>Here's the Trio in Michael Bass' Horizontal Flash Mount Bracket. Solid as a rock with (obviously) no stress on the hotshoe. I will mount the flash even further back than what's shown in this photo (toward the hinge) to get the bulb deeper into the modifier. This image shows the Trio with a Photek Softliter II.</p>

<p>(I posted this shot in another forum, but said above that I would upload it here when available.)</p><div></div>

[ian_casement]

<p>You illustrate a point quite well there Peter.</p>

<p>The Basic Trio which you show there, doesn't have a built-in radio, so as well as working out how to fit your flash to a modifier, you also need to work out how to trigger your flash as a remote too. The built-in radio options of the Trio and FreeXwire plug-in units on the T5d-R and X5d-R options remove this neccesity entirely, along with the additional trailing wires and hotshoe adapters which are really unnecessary.</p>

[peter_cohen]

<p>Good point about the limitations of the Trio Basic, Ian. However, at the time I bought it, my budget had certain limitations as well ;-) I had the extra CyberSync and hotshoe while the additional $250 for the radio-equipped Trio was missing.</p>

[ian_casement]

<p>The good thing is you managed to use your existing radios, but you can upgrade to the radio version Trio if you need - or want to. I don't know many other systems which provide that facility.</p>

[peter_cohen]

<p>Exactly. The other Trio I have is the radio version, so I'm already half-way there. And I have some bizarre thought in my mind about using TTL Pocket Wizards someday when they are more reliable than now, a topic about which you have some knowledge IIRC.</p>

<p>This setup works great for me now and, as you noted, gives me the flexibility to upgrade in the future.</p>

[ian_casement]

<p>Upgrading existing flash units? - Not a lot of people know that! ;-)</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p ><a name="00ZE1m"></a><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=3852036">J.C. Lopez-Johnston</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"><img title="Subscriber" src="../v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub4.gif" alt="" /></a>, Aug 22, 2011; 08:24 p.m.</p>

 

<p>... I was wondering what make these flashes "special" > I have just seen few people using them and also seems to be too much not known by professional photographers.<br /><br /></p>

 

</blockquote>

[danny_wong2]

<p>Yes my X2 was upgraded to a X2D and then to the X3Dr (which is the equivalent to the X5Dr).<br>

The T has the capacitors in the flash and need a high voltage battery.<br>

The X has the capacitor in the powerpack which consist of the power module and the battery. This design is to save the weight of the capacitors for 400WS of flash power from the flash head. The X heads are lighter than the T heads.<br>

Quantum excel in portability and automation. All the Quantums are comfortably used on a bracket attached to the camera. One would not want to mount a PB Einstein onto their camera with a bracket and shoot with it all day.</p>