M7 Flaws

[andy_sprauer]

I was all set to purchase a new M7 this week & with all it's problems

I've been reading about I'm keeping my trusty M6 Classic!! Its ashame

Leica didn't resolve the issues such as: the flashing red light when a

different ISO film speed used, hard to remove film cannisters, bad

design on battery cover - list goes on.

[steve_hotchkiss]

My M7 reminds me when the film speed setting is being manually over-riden by blinking a red light. Works like a charm. My film cannisters come out. My battery cover covers the battery. I don't have a "list".

 

My experience has been wonderful and I believe that you are cheating yourself if you continue to use what you don't really want because of some rumors.

[john_a.]

I am so tired of hearing these lame anal complaints. I bough one when they first came out. Works like a charm, no problems here. Its winner in my book.

[frank]

Andy,

 

IMO all these "terrible" issues you mention are terrible in theory.

In practice they don't prevent you from taking wonderful pics. I

use a M7 and two M6 and I must admit that I prefer the M7

because it is more comfortable and much quicker. BTW until

today I havn't read one single thread of someone who has lost

the battery cover, but I can remember the loud crying of the

community when Leica introduced the M7 without thread mount

battery cover. Just give the M7 a try; I am sure you will like it :-)

[tom_burke3]

I saw a comment from Ted Grant who's a pro photog in Vancouver, does Leica workshops, etc, etc. He has a stable of Leicas (M6s, M7s, R8s) and therefore has great experience with them. I believe he was one of those who posted on the Leica Enthusiasts Group on Topica about the 'battery cover' problem, but certainly he later (recently) posted that in that instance the mistake had been his; he hadn't inserted the cover correctly. Once he'd worked out how to do that he'd had no problems with the battery cover since.

 

(Apologies to Ted for paraphrasing his comments.)

[phillip_p]

the way I figured is that no camera is perfect. Each will have its own flaws. Just a matter of whether or not the M7 can fit your needs.

[bob haight]

If you want autoexposure and the certainty of electronic shutter timing the M7 is the way to go. Anyone buying the M camera at this point this should give serious attention to the M7 over the prior models. From what I read the reviews have been very favorable and users love it.

[jay_.]

Andy I had the same intitial reaction to the M7 and the same initial hesitancy to buy one. So I didn't buy one. I bought two ;>) And after several months of use, none of the so-called "flaws" turned out to be. I am very happy I bought them. I still have an M6TTL and an M4 but they're strictly backup now.

[skip_williams]

Andy, Please read the archives here. You shouldn't make such a major decision based on a few people whining about REALLY minor issues. It's a great camera and none of the "flaws" has reared it's head at me in any significant way. If you buy one and you really use it, you'll never look back. Go to a store and pick up an M7 and "test" out all of these flaws and decide for yourself.<p>

 

What do I do for the issues?<p>

 

1. 32-sec wait - turn the SS off AUTO or wait.<br>

2. Blinking dots - ignore 'em<br>

3. Film cannister DX grabbers - reach in with two fingers and pull the cannister out<br>

4. Battery cover coming loose - Small strip of electrical tape holds it still. This and #5 are actually real issues, but the tape solves them with no problem. If you don't like tape, tough.<br>

5. Possible movement of ISO dial - Small strip of tape here too<br>

6. Possible draining of battery in the bag - use on-off switch<br>

7. RF flare - Not an issue, and it's better than the M6's<br>

<p>

 

Skip

[john_fine]

I agree with the above. I borrowed an M7 for a couple of days and now I am ready to sell my M4 to buy one. I also have a M6 Classic which has lately been my primary camera. After a few adjustments (such as the shutter speed dial turning the other direction) I found the M7 to be the most capable Leica body I have ever used in 25 years of Leica experience. It is an improvement just as the new lenses are improvements on the old ones (especially my 24 asperical).

[kaiblanke]

Oh yes, and don't overlook the main M6 flaw: The missing aperture priority mode ...

[fotografz]

I have 2 M7s (.72 & .85 for 75mm and up). I also still have a couple of

prized M6 TTLs. I use the 7s for available light wedding work. But, I

still use the 6s. For example, I just returned from NYC where my wife

ran the Marathon, and I took a Titanium M6, 35/2, 50/2 and 90/2.8.

Could have used a 7 just as easily but I'm use to that M6 stuff being my

"vacation" kit. It's just an extravagance. I guess the 7s now remind me of

work so I leave them at home along with the work. Like the M7s are my

company gear and the 6s are mine personally.

 

As to flaws, just flip it around...The battery cover locks securely and has

yet to loosen during a hectic wedding. The blinking red light keeps you

from forgetting to reset to the real ISO of some films where it should be

set correctly. And I have yet had a film cannister fly out into the damp

grass, puddle or onto the concrete in front of a church, in my rush to

reload a 7.

[eliot]

Reports of M7 flaws are greatly exaggerated.

[albert knapp md]

Andy: Why don't you try an M7 for a weekend. You will find that all

the "flaws" are either minor or unfounded. The blinking light is an

annoyance but is easily ignored. My only problem is the difficulty

in extraction of film cannisters but guess what ? I have a pair of

tweezers that do the job instantly. Do you remember the old

commercial for Alka Seltzer "Try it, you'll like it"? It applies to the

M7 as well.

[Alex_Es]

Dear All,

 

Thank you and thank you for your comments on the M7. Thank you Andy

for raising the topic. And evreryone else for going through gist of

the M7 issues that have scared me away from that camera. Well, I'm

ready. Sooner rather than later as I had originally planned.

 

Best,

 

Alex

[andy_sprauer]

Thanks for all of your responses. I'm especially bothered that I have to use electrical tape to keep the ISO dial from moving around along with the battery compartment cover!! I'm not happy about the idea. The Classic will remain as my primary body along with the 35/2 pre-asph cron. BTW I found the 35/2 Asph not to be great replacement either - went back to the pre-asph model. On the more special demand stuff I will use my RTS-III

[red dawn]

Hi

 

i find it really weird that pple are using tweezers and black tape to "help" the M7 along. i mean, for the kind of price Leica wants for the M7, the black tape and tweezers should come in the box! :)

 

come on, is it really tat bad? surely not???? (ok i admit i'm finding reasons to justify getting one as a second body to the M6TTL ;P)

 

ps: someting to reflect on......

 

those cheap plastic SLR bodies we all like to bash have no problems with blinking unwanted lights in the viewfinder, no problems with film canister removal and no need for black tape. And their shutter speeds are all accurate........

[markci]

Holy cow - now not only do you have to figure out what to do with the bottom plate when you change film, you have to fish around for tweezers as well. Glad to see Leica is moving into the 21st century on the ol' ergonomic issues. I'm sticking with th M6 TTL.

[eliot]

Mark. The "old ergonomic issues" you refer to are what make the Leica M what it is. Change the basic structure of the M camera and you won't have an M camera any more. The M7 is not perfect, but the flaws that have been cited are minor, in actual use. On the other hand, the AE works really well, giving very precise and accurate exposures when used intelligently.

 

I think Leica did well to make the M7 as close to the earlier cameras in size, shape, and use (except of course for AE). That's why it has been a commercial success (unlike the M5, which was a significant departure from the earlier M cameras).

 

I think they could have put in a faster shutter with a faster sync speed, but I find the AE really does make the operation of the M so much faster that the M7 is a worthwhile upgrade. Others may disagree with that statement.

[2yellowdogs]

I read the initial problems cited by Andy and thought that they really aren't a big deal. But the more I read, the more apprehensive I become.

 

I'm contemplating the move from the Contax G2. The main motivation, of course is the Leica glass. I couldn't have been happier to hear about the M7 when it came out. Everything you could ask for in a rangefinder.

 

But this bit about _tweezers_ for G*d's sake has me in disbelief. Then there's the fact that I'm a left eyed shooter - nose on ASA dial. Never mind the 40 year old film loading process. I understand the build quality and feel involved with the M7. And yes, tradition is important too. But there are practical considerations when actually using a camera. Surely Leica could have addressed these issues by now. Sometimes I think they intentionally keep a lot of the M's quirky features despite the inconvenience to users just to distinguish the product as a 'true Leica'.

 

None of this has reduced my desire to use the lenses. It's just made me think a lot more seriously about the CV R2. The only way to resolve this is going to be renting one for a week and seeing how the camera works for me. Anyone know a good place to rent an M7 and 35mm Summicron for a week?

[albert knapp md]

Boon, Dan and Mark: The use of tweezers is not mandatory but

is helpful for those with larger fingers. It takes a second to use

and is no big deal at all !! Lighten up fellas and try the M7

yourself...

[ray_moth]

A drawback of AE mode in the M7, IMHO, is the fact that the only way you can lock the exposure is by holding the shutter release button partially depressed. So, if you are using AE in a situation where the light reflected from the central region of your intended subject is not representative of the way the scene is lit or is not going to give you the exposure you want (e.g. a half-length portrait of someone wearing a white shirt), you need to take a reading from a suitable surface that represents "18% grey" and then lock it with the shutter button while you recompose. Unfortunately, there is no exposure lock switch that is active until you cancel it.

 

The exposure that you lock in, by holding down the shutter release, is lost in the next shot, even when using the Motor-M in a sequence of shots, because the shutter release button has to return to the top of its travel for each frame before the film can be advanced again. If you want to use the motor with AE mode, then, you might need to dial in some compensation, since exposure lock won't work for the second and subsequent shots. That means, of course, that you must determine what degree of compensation you need in the first place. Luckily, the automatically-calculated shutter speed is displayed in the M7's viewfinder in AE mode, so you can take note of what speed would be used for the "18% grey" reading and you can then adjust the compensation dial so that the same shutter speed will be used in the shot you want to take. This is a bit fiddly! It's probably easier, in this situation, to select the shutter speed manually and forget about AE.

[jsbc]

Ray:

One thing that I am not clear is what you mean (and others mean) by locking in the exposure. Do you lock in the shutter speed? What happens when you change the aperture with the shutter half-depressed? Does the shutter speed change accordingly - ie equivalent to what Canon/ Nikon called program shift mode? Or does the shutter speed stay constant, so instead of "point to 18% grey zone and then re-compose) I can just aim the camera at what I want to do and then open two stops because it is a back-light situation?

 

Johnson

[ray_moth]

Johnson,

 

When you activate the exposure lock in AE mode, you are effectively freezing the shutter speed, since that's the only thing the camera can select automatically. The only auto-exposure mode of the M7 is aperture priority. The lens aperture has to be set manually; if you adjust it, the camera will make a compensatory adjustment to the shutter speed, so as to maintain the same exposure value.<br><br>

 

The sequence of events for exposure locking is: <br><br>

 

(a) manually select a suitable lens aperture; <br><br>

 

(b) point the camera at some part of the scene that you consider will give a "correct" light reading for your purposes; <br><br>

 

© check that shutter speed displayed in the viewfinder is acceptable;<br><br>

 

(d) if necessary, adjust the lens aperture until you are happy with the displayed shutter speed;<br><br>

 

(e) press the shutter release button part-way, to lock the shutter speed at that setting but not so far as to fire the shutter;<br><br>

 

(f) maintaining steady pressure on the shutter release, compose your shot the way you want it;<br><br>

 

(g) press the shutter release fully home, so that the shutter fires. <br><br>

[ray_moth]

Johnson, sorry, I forgot to answer your other question. If you change the lens aperture while the exposure is locked, it won't make any difference to the shutter speed. The camera doesn't know what aperture you're using, because there is no linkage between the lens and the body to tell it. All it knows is that the light reaching the metering spot on the shutter curtain has changed, which could be because you changed the aperture or you pointed the camera at a darker or brighter part of the scene. If you've already locked the exposure, that will stop it from responding to any light change.