Film Flatness

[geri_brandimarte2]

I am considering getting a Mamiya Pro TL and have heard some talk

about a film flatness problem with Mamiya cameras. How much of a

problems is this, if any? Also, is their any other issues I should

consider before getting into this system? Thank you, Geri Brandimarte

[todd frederick]

This issue was discussed a few weeks ago. The older M645 series, the 645E, the 645AF and the 645 Pro all use the same inserts. These inserts place the winding bend at the point/space between frames. There is no film flatness problem using that insert. There is a problem with the new 645AFD, so I'm told, and I think there is some sort of modification in order to avoid the problem.

[edward_c._nemergut]

Film flatness is an issue with *any* roll film camera, especially those which utilize "reverse roll loading." I'm not exactly sure why many people believe this is unique to Mamiya camera systems. Like everything else in photography, the problem is less effected by the equipment than it is by the user...

 

Obviously, any problem with film flatness is going to be exacerbated by any shooter that takes a long time to finish a roll. (Simply put, this gives the film longer to be "bent" under the carrier rollers). If you really want to decrease the chance of film flatness becoming an issue, shoot 220 film (flatness problems are more likely with 120 film) and finish a roll quickly (i.e. a day). I believe most people who have trouble with film flatness are amateurs who shoot occassionally and thus leave a roll in the camera for an extended period of time (i.e. a few days)...

[richard_fateman]

If you want film to be flat, there are two simple but unfortunately pricey solutions.

 

1. Use a Rollei 6000 camera, which holds the film flat not only on the leading and trailing edge (with rollers) [call this North and South] but on the film edges [call this East and West]. There are three tabs that grab the film edges on each side and keep the film in the same plane.

 

2. Use only 220 film and a Contax vacuum back.

 

I voted for the Rollei (6006). Used and with HFT (non-PQ) lenses

it may be competitive with new Mamiya Pro prices.

 

Good luck.

[john_bright]

or use a Rangefinder-Camera where the problem never existed in the first place.

[pete_andrews]

The Pentacon six had a very sensible straight through film path, and the Kowa6 camera offers one of the least-bent film tracks too.<br> Strange how the designers of these 'cheap' cameras could get it so right, while 'Blad, Bronica, Contax and Mamiya don't seem to have a flipping clue!<p>Before I get flamed; I currently use a Mamiya 645 system, and I must admit that I haven't found film flatness, or lack of it, to be any problem at all. That's even using a 35mm ultra-wide lens, with its very shallow depth-of-focus (not to be confused with its immense depth-of-field).

[p_l_jensen]

The problem occurs (under special conditions depending on film stock, temperature, moisture etc) on 645 cameras with 16 frames per roll 120 film. It disappears when using 15 frames/roll. You can read about it in the Pentax 645NII manual.

[marios pittas]

> The problem occurs (under special conditions depending on film

> stock, temperature, moisture etc) on 645 cameras with 16 frames per

> roll 120 film. It disappears when using 15 frames/roll.

 

This problem is actually not restricted to the 645 but it is related to roll film photography in general. When I bought the 6x12 Horseman back for the 4x5 camera the salesman kept impressing on me, not to move to the next frame unless I was ready to shoot it, so as to create the right tension (keep the film straight) before the shot. You can also fix uneven film by shooting at f/16 thus increasing the depth of field.

 

Simple test: load your film back, leave it there for 3 weeks, after which open the film back and look at the "tension" (if any by now) of the film on the insert.. you may be suprised!! True other conditions will affect film flatness, read tension and think of temperature changes.. so it starts becoming a scientific subject!!!

 

It is my understanding that one of the best film backs were the "S shaped" Mamiya Press / Universal film backs... ala 1960's design.. I guess you could switch that nowadays with the Contax 2000s vacum back.. there will be a difference of a few dollars.. techological advancement?

 

Reality check question: Have you actually ever suffered from lack of film flatness?? I have been shotting with the Mamiya 645 Pro for almost 4~5 years and never noticed any problems, with enlargements up to 16"x20"... I am yet to see a shot where the photographer said that problems with the photo was caused because of film flatness!!!