back to film: eos3 vs 1 series

[michael_burin1]

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>Been using a 1Ds (mk1 digital) for a while and now using film a bit more again.<br>

I have an Elan 7 - works fine, but am starting to miss the robust build, handling,<br>

big viewfinder, and excellent auto-focus of the 1 series. So I am thinking about<br>

picking up a 1v, 1n, or eos 3. Lots of specs and older comparisons online between<br>

these 3 cameras I realize, but I would like to hear about your (modern) experience<br>

with them given the attributes I miss. Or the ones I don't realize I'm missing yet ... :)<br>

In a nutshell, why spring 2-3x the cost these days for a 1v? Thanks. - Michael</p>

<p> </p>

[danielleetaylor]

<p>I went the EOS 3 route.</p>

<p>Pros: fast, sure AF. (My 7D's AF is better, but the EOS 3's is very good.) Relatively modern UI. Great VF with right side exposure scale. Built like a tank and very comfortable to hold, at least for my hands. (The body shape feels slightly better to me than my 7D.) Good CF set. Multi spot metering (love that feature and wish it was on the modern bodies.) Eye control focus if you like that. It's cheaper on eBay than a 1v.</p>

<p>Cons: loud. MLU is buried in the CF set. Missing some of the UI refinements of later bodies, but that's probably true of the film EOS 1v as well. (I'm thinking of how the top left mode buttons work. You have to hold 1-2 while moving the top dial. Modern bodies let you press one button, not hold it, then control two parameters at once with the two separate dials. Also, I miss the separate AF and AE lock buttons on the rear of the 7D.) The hinged right side door sometimes catches on your hand a bit and opens, it's not a slide-then-open design like on modern digital bodies.</p>

<p>I guess I'm comparing it more to my 7D than to a 1v. But I can't think of anything that it lacks or does poorly. I've certainly never shot with it and thought "boy, I wish I had this particular 1v feature." YMMV.</p>

[HenryUK]

<p>I recently acquired an EOS 1V and ran a film through it.<br>

It is the most robust and responsive camera I've ever used. Prior to that I had used most film bodies up to the EOS 1 and 3, and up to the EOS 7D in digital.<br>

Compared to the EOS 3 the shutter/mirror operation is significantly quieter, it has dioptric adjustment for the eyepiece and it has an eyepiece blind. The focusing felt a bit quicker. Apart from those I would say there's not much practical difference.<br>

It is also possible to see how many rolls of film have been used and it imprints the roll number on the first frame.<br>

If you can find the ES-E1 link cable and software you can download the shooting data and adjust a load of personal functions. I have heard that the software doesn't work with modern operating systems.<br>

Is it worth 3X the price? I was lucky. My 1V cost me GBP60; the same as I paid for the EOS 3. I wouldn't have bought it if it had been GBP180. Then I would have missed out on using the best film camera.<br>

I hope this helps.</p>

<p>Henry</p>

[mdma]

<p>I bought the EOS 1n a month ago. My other modern film cameras were an EOS 1000f, EOS 5, EOS 300, a F801s and an F5. I'd say its better than all of them, overall.<br>

<br /> Between the rear control dial and the complete absence of any superflous, consumer orientated twilight/sport/beach modes etc. it is very straightforward to use, reminiscent of my OM-2n. It feels well built (it is of course) but without the power booster or battery pack, remains light for its size as it uses a single 2CR5 battery. It gets far more out of that battery, roughly double the amount of rolls an EOS 5 does. If you really need to use AA batteries, you can get the battery pack (4xAA). If you really need a higher FPS, you can get the power booster (8xAA). It isnt just forced on you like in the F5.<br>

AF is blisteringly fast, just as fast with USM lenses as my F5 was with AFS lenses. Having said that, the EOS 300 was no slouch, so I dont think the EOS 30/Elan 7 would be much slower, but there probably will be a noticeable difference. I believe an EOS 3 is faster still, and has more AF points (45?) vs just 5 on the EOS 1n. However the shutter noise is also louder on the 3. The 3 also isn't quite as weather sealed (please correct me if Im wrong).<br>

<br /> The 1v is similar to the 3; has faster AF, more AF sensors, but with the best environmental sealing Canon could produce at the time.<br>

<br /> Viewfinders are large all round, but of course Canon is (in)famous for not having as good eye relief as Nikon (especially as an eye glasses wearer).<br>

<br /> Arguably the biggest downfall of the 1n is that it wont work fully with the current EX series flashes, only the previous EZ models. And of course the EZ sieres isn't forwards compatible with digital bodies. This is a positive for me - I have no EOS digital bodies, and all the top EZ flashes are much cheaper.<br /> The 3 and 1v were designed for EX Speedlites.<br>

<br /> Hopefully this helps you out, as to why a 1v is 2-3x the cost of the other two. IIRC, the 3 and 1n are roughly the same price now. This may seem odd, seeing as the former is newer and more advanced, but I think this is because of the still significant commonality between the 1n and 1v.</p>

[mark_pierlot]

<p>I picked up an EOS-3 a few years ago, and used it alot. It's eye control focusing worked well for me, despite the fact that I wear spectacles.</p>

<p>Then I picked up a 1V (and have since added a 1VHS), and can honestly say that since then I haven't used my 3 <em>even once. </em>The reasons for this have more to do with the superior handling and "feel" of the 1V, rather than its capability.</p>

<p>I do miss the ECF feature of the 3, but nothing else. (I count myself among those who would love to see Canon incorporate that feature into a DSLR.)</p>

[PuppyDigs]

The main gotcha with the EOS 1N, 3 and 1V is their AF system is only at it's best with F2.8 or faster lenses. if you

use a variable aperture zoom, AF can be disappointing. Why? The cross AF point degrades to single axis with slower

lenses and have difficulty snagging. The 3/1v maintain the center cross with F4 optics, albeit at reduced precision from F2.8' but the cluster of crosses around it degrade to single axis.

[bill_dewberry]

<p>Truly, there is no way to describe in words, the difference in feel and sound between the 1V and the eos 3. You have to be there to feel the difference. If you can, go to a used camera store and see if they have the 2 for you to test.<br>

harry- what the hell was all that noise- sonic boom ? Nope, just pressed the shutter on my EOS 3.</p>

 

[bkpix]

<p>Just get a 1V and don't look back.</p>

[danielleetaylor]

<p><em>The main gotcha with the EOS 1N, 3 and 1V is their AF system is only at it's best with F2.8 or faster lenses. if you use a variable aperture zoom, AF can be disappointing. Why? The cross AF point degrades to single axis with slower lenses and have difficulty snagging.</em></p>

<p>From http://photonotes.org/reviews/1-1N-3-1V/<em> - The 3 and 1V have 45 autofocus sensors, all of which can detect horizontal and diagonal lines at normal precision when used with a lens of f/8 or faster. However they also have 7 cross sensors capable of high-precision focussing. Of this group of 7, the central sensor retains high precision down to f/4 or faster and the remaining 6 cross sensors require f/2.8 or faster for high precision.</em></p>

<p>They don't all lose an axis. But 7 have variable "high precision" depending on max aperture. Then again, do you need high precision with an f/4 or slower lens? Isn't the extra precision related to precise focus vs DoF rather than speed?</p>

[Lou_Meluso]

<p>I have the 1N and it's mighty robust, feels great in the hands and holds the film quite flat. I can see the entire viewfinder with my glasses. The 1V is the bomb but it's way more money. For my type of pictures the 1N is working well. I keep the A2E around because it's so quiet.</p>

[derek_stanton2]

<p>I started with an EOS 1v, but later switched to the EOS3, which i have now. The 1 is better-built, but having only the EOS3 over the past ten+ years, i do not ever feel that it is lacking in that respect. In fact, with the motor drive/booster thing, it feels as solid as anything i could ever want. </p>

<p>The EOS 3 is not quiet, as pointed out above. But, what i don't like about the 1v is how focus points are determined. I just never liked cycling through the various points in a circle by rotating that dial. I still don't get that system, and i'm constantly thinking i just didn't have the camera set up correctly. That can't be how it's supposed to work, right? I now also have a Nikon F100, and it has a simple control pad for direct selection of focus points. Common sense, as with the current EOS system. So, for that reason alone, i prefer the EOS 3 and the ECF, which works quite well. <br>

Being able to compose first and have the camera respond to what you want to shoot is a beautiful thing. </p>

[philip_wilson]

I have a 1NRS, 3and two 1Vs (one configured as a plain 1V, the other as a 1VHS). Of the four the 1V is easily the

best. I quite like the 3 but don't mind the shutter noise and actually quite like the air focus. If you can afford it get the

1V. If not get the 3

[PuppyDigs]

Dan it would be great if the 3/1V actually had 45 cross AF points but it just ain't so. They both only have 7 and the

remaining 38 are single axis sensors with some in vertical and others in horizontal orientation. So as a group they can

detect both vertical and horizontal lines but not as individual AF sensors. Try locking the EF 400 5.6L on a skyscaper

while holdimg the camera in vertical orientation and it will have extreme difficulty unless You tilt it. You might want to

read Canon's "EOS 3 Technical Overview" (Canon 1998) for the straight poop. Once this info gets filtered into

websites it tends to get jumbled a bit.

[HenryUK]

<p>My copy of the CPS publication ProFILE dated March 2000 says:</p>

<p>"Seven of the 45 focusing points at the centre are cross-sensor types, which are sensitive to horizontal lines up to f5.6 and vertical lines up to f2.8. The remaining 38 sensors are sensitive to horizontal lines up to f5.6."</p>

<p>The Canon EOS-3 Technical Overview, page 14, says the same.</p>

<p>The other nice feature that the EOS 1V has is the button that lets you select a pre-registered focus point.</p>

<p>Henry</p>

[mdma]

<blockquote>

<p>I just never liked cycling through the various points in a circle by rotating that dial. I still don't get that system, and i'm constantly thinking i just didn't have the camera set up correctly. That can't be how it's supposed to work, right? </p>

</blockquote>

<p>http://www3.canon.de/images/pro/fot/slr/geh/file/EOS_3_eng_toc.pdf <br>

Page 38 has the focus point controls, in a nutshell the options are automatic/eye control/dial control.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>For my type of pictures the 1N is working well. I keep the A2E around because it's so quiet.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Im glad Im not the only one stuck in the 90's!</p>

<p> </p>

[w_t1]

<p>I have both, just an FYI, if you buy either cam with a pbe-2, either on the camera or as an extra, make sure it has the holder for the AA batteries, some on the used market don't. If it comes with an original canon np-e2 battery, due to age may be on its last legs. I don't miss those expensive 2cr5(?) batteries. My 1vhs came with the pbe2, i liked it so much I picked up one for the 3. I shoot a lot of verticals, and love the pbe2</p>

<p>Have fun, I'm shooting my 1v with tri-x tomorrow sporting event(digital as well). Ps all this fuss about focus points, I generallly only use one, for film and digital, that and focusing with the thumb, but that's just my style</p>