Alternative to PC-E lenses?

[szrimaging]

<p>Alright, I am really after the use of movements for my photography. Ultimately, I should be using 4x5, but don't want the hassle of film/scanning. And 16MP (D7000) is ample for my use at this point in time. So, other than shelling out $1800 for a used 85mm PC-E, what are my alternatives? I am looking for something more in the $1k market. It needs to have both shift and tilt capabilities.</p>

<p>The only other solution I have had is a 4x5 with an adapter, but in the end I bet this would bee too bulky. But, it would lead to some awesome panoramas if the Fotodiox one works well...</p>

[luke_kaven]

<p>There are the Arsat and Hartblei lenses if you need both shift /and/ tilt. Others here can speak about their experiences with them.</p>

<p>If you can get by with just shift, there are earlier Nikon PC Nikkors, starting with the inexpensive 35/2.8 (around $250 used, get the newer type that doesn't interfere with the AI tab), and moving up to the 28/3.5 ($550-$750 used). </p>

[alex_lofquist]

<p>You really don't need the E version if you can find the slightly earlier one. It requires stopping down manually, but that is really no problem as far as I can see. Otherwise, they are identical optically.</p>

[szrimaging]

<p>I have been looking for about a week, and can't find the older version. Maybe I am just unlucky. Although, haven't tried classifieds on here yet....</p>

[szrimaging]

<p>Luke,</p>

<p>Looks like those Hartblei ones (the nicer ones) shot through the roof. For the prices I'm finding, might as well buy a brand new Nikkor.</p>

<p>But, I can't nail down full details on the Arsat. At under $400 it's an easy one to pay for, that's for sure.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>You've actually already answered your own question.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Ultimately, I should be using 4x5</p>

</blockquote>

<p>However, with both tilts and shifts on the "Kleinbild" (35mm camera) lenses, you should have considerable control. Tilt and shift lenses are simply not cheap for itsy-bitsy miniature formats like APS-C or 35mm. I think you need to bite the bullet, and get the real thing.<br>

Since you want an 85mm lens, I'm assuming you are doing something like product photography?</p>

<p><strong>On the other hand</strong><br>

There are tilt and shift adapters for P6 [6x6 camera Pentacon 6]>Nikon or Canon lenses that are something less than US $400, the last time I checked (from Russia, if they are still available, I don't know about the love part).<br>

A Zeiss Jena 80mm Biotar f/2.8 P6 lens should (even at recent inflated prices) be less than $400.<br>

I know the lens is fantastic and will work well on (and cover well) smaller format cameras ( I have the shift-only adapter>EOS), but I know nothing about the practical utility of the tilt-<em>and</em>-shift or tilt-only adapters.<br>

It's expensive enough that you may want to look for a used Nikon lens a little longer, given the uncertainties of the "make-shift" (pun intended) solution.</p>

[Two23]

<p>I looked at the Nikon PCE lenses and really like them, but all in all the best deal for me was to shoot 4x5. So, that's what I do. There are a ton of cool lenses I have for it, dating back to about 1860.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[chriscourt]

<p>Check the Fred Miranda forums. There have been 2x 85mm PCs and an Arsat listed there in the last week.<br>

The original 85mm PC micro-nikkor is a very sharp lens - I can highly recommend it for general macro use. I've heard great things about it for food and tabletop product photography as well, although my personal usage hasn't taken me in that direction.<br>

C</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Hmm, the US Kiev Camera site doesn't seem to list these any more. I have a cheap(ish) 35mm f/2.8 tilt/shift from them in Nikon fit, but the ergonomics are pretty awful - you have to do weird things (hold the lens still, rotate the mount) to mount one on a D700, it doesn't lock securely, and the tilt and shift are locked at 90 degrees by the design (the shift slides along the plane of the tilt, so there's no way around this). And it's not especially sharp. Apart from that, it's fine. :-)<br />

<br />

I have an old 65mm f/3.5 Hartblei super-rotator whose ergonomics (and possibly optics) are vastly better - but sadly, it's on an Eos mount, which makes it very difficult for me to use (my Canon bodies don't have live view, which is a huge benefit for tilt/shift). I have to see whether I can get it re-mounted for Nikon, but I suspect it may have ebay in its future.<br />

<br />

I believe the Hartblei optics got a big upgrade a few years ago (after I got mine), which is probably why the prices went through the roof. Looking for an old one on ebay may still be worthwhile. The newer on-brand devices are probably significantly better, but they're obviously silly money. I think Bjørn's site said something about adapting a shift-only Nikkor so that it tilts as well; alternatively, if you're at macro range anyway, you might get away with bellows.<br />

<br />

Or there's the Lensbaby approach, if you're really on a budget. In fact, I believe they do a tilt/shift adaptor that will let you use a Nikkor lens to give tilt on a micro 4/3 camera - so if you can get at one of those, I suspect it's a reasonably quality solution.<br />

<br />

I'm intrigued by JDM's P6 adaptor suggestion, though. Methinks I'm off to research some more lenses I can't afford...</p>

[dan_brown4]

<p>Zack, I have the older version of the 85PC I am looking to sell, shoot me an e-mail, I'll give you a good price.</p>

<p> </p>

[szrimaging]

<p>I am actually working with food and portraits, not really products. I am self assigning myself a new project that will involve photo and video. Working out the details now. Generally, when I shoot, I prefer longer focal lengths, they just look more pleasing to me.</p>

<p>The biggest problem with 4x5 is just how cumbersome it is. That said, this project might do fine with 4x5, and in fact has been done by others in the past using it.</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>I think 4x5 film processing is the main drawback, also those cameras aren't exactly fast to operate or travel-friendly. I got the PC(-E) series because I want the lenses to go with me without a huge weight and size penalty.</p>

<p>In your case I would get the older 85mm f/2.8D PC Nikkor, without the E, used. Marvellous lenses, these are, IMHO.</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>Info didn't seem too difficult to find. Try this link:<br>

<a href="http://araxfoto.com/specials/tilt-shift-80/">http://araxfoto.com/specials/tilt-shift-80/</a></p>

[szrimaging]

<p>Yeah, I'm still not 100% sure if that Arax is the same as the Arsat. I think it is.... When I wrote the reply earlier I didn't realize that a bunch of these Russian made lenses are the same thing under different brand names.</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Ah yes, the araxfoto site includes the 35mm lens that I own. I'll repeat my warning that the square edges of the tilt assembly can foul on the prism/flash (at least on my D700) so you have to rotate the knurled metal ring until it (sort of) locks in place while holding the lens still, and that the shift mechanism slides "along the (base of the) hinge" of the tilt mechanism, so you're stuck with them at 90 degrees. The 80mm mount looks very similar. Not to say it's a bad lens, and mine's better than nothing, but the ergonomics of <a href="http://www.hartblei.com/lenses/lens_65mm.htm">the hartblei</a> are much better - if you can find one at sensible money.<br />

<br />

Not that it sounds like it'll help for your project, but one benefit I found to a tilt/shift on a small camera is that you can set the tilt to roughly the right plane, then move the camera as a whole around to fix focus. This would work much better if you could split live view into four, each with a different position/magnification (a feature I've been requesting for years now) so you could check focus at different points on the desired focal plane, but even getting close in a viewfinder is much less hassle than large format. Assuming you aren't too fussed about critical sharpness or composition, of course...</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>I confess that I don't know anything about the availability of the Russian adapters these days. They seem to come and go under different names. I was contemplating a tilt adapter+P6 80mm for my daughter who does a lot of product work, but when the price went up to this range, it seemed too much of a gamble.<br /> I think the issues raised by Andrew are highly relevant, and with a combined cost of ca $800, it's uncertain enough to make one very cautious.</p>

<p>I repeat that for shift-only the Russian shift P6>EOS adapter works well, but tilt would seem to be more the point for the longer focal lengths. I bought the shift adapter since it was little more $ than a straight P6>EOS adapter, although I have not yet figured out what to use a Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f/2.8 shift lens for. If my Mir 45mm P6 lens were not so soft at a 35mm image size, it would be a little more useful. In the meantime, I just use an old PC-Nikkor 35mm shift lens on my Canon 5D.</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>I too have a cherished old 35mm f/2.8 PC-Nikkor which does good service on a D700. It's not the sharpest of lenses, but generally performs better than "pixel stretching" in PS.</p>

<p>I'm totally baffled as to why Nikon dropped the 28 and 35mm focal lengths from their PC-E range of lenses. To me they're an ideal compromise focal length, since I'm not going to rush out and buy both a 24mm (for architecture) and 45mm PC-E Nikkor (for goodness knows what purpose), and I don't think many other people are willing to either. What's really needed is a fairly simple tilt-shift mount that different focal length lenses can be socketed into. The medium format lens adapter is OK for longer focal lengths, but doesn't serve at all for wideangle use.</p>

<p>HELLO SCHNEIDER! If you're listening, there's a fairly vigorous market waiting for you to bring back your PA-Curtagon lenses in a T-S mount. But at a realistic price this time, eh! Personally I wouldn't even care if the adapter was made of plastic as long as it worked. On second thoughts, make that "HELLO SAMYANG", they seem keen on filling niche-markets with competitively priced products.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>The realistic price criterion is important. I was just reminded the other day that the shift lens from Olympus was over $800 at the time the PC-Nikkor was around $400. Pentax and Schneider were similarly way high compared to Nikon (was that a first?). One of the reasons I went Nikon at the time.</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Perhaps "hello lensbaby"? They already make a tilt/shift (well, tilt, I'm not sure it shifts) adaptor for fitting Nikon lenses to micro 4/3. Perhaps making a bigger version for mounting medium format lenses on a Nikon body would go down well. I'm not averse to getting more use out of the 75mm f/2.8 from my Pentax 645.</p>