london night photography, large format-should I expect police hassle?

[mark_l6]

<p>Back in the early 1980's I spent three months shooting central london including the City of London with my 4x5 linhof taking long exposures between the hours of 10pm and dawn, never once being even approached by the police, in fact the only hassle I ever got was from drunken yuppies.<br>

I may have reason to return to England from my adopted country of Australia for a few weeks, and am contemplating trying to update my project and indeed fill in some gaps, maybe even to complete the project.<br>

My question is this, I take about half an hour to an hour to set up and take each scene, many exposures were in the 5 to 30 minute range, am I going to get hassled by the London police? Will I get a load of grief from private security idiots? I hear all sorts of worrying stories about london police hassling photographers and I no longer do this for a living and do my large format work for pure fun and if I think I'm going to get hassled or even arrested for setting up my sinar on a tripod quite frankly I may forget the whole thing and have a go at covering the same thing in Paris or Barcelona where any hassle with police has easily been diffused by doing my dumb Aussie tourist impression (not really that hard for me).<br>

I'm 6ft 3in and solid so I never have concerns about personal safety, but find police harrassment really unpleasant and if it's going to happen night after night, then forget it , I will just cross england off my personal list of civilised countries to photograph in. <br>

All contributions gratefully received, particularly from anyone who's tried large format work late at night in london.<br>

Below should be an example of my idea of fun with a camera.</p><div></div>

[Jerry_]

<p>My guess: it would depend on the building - bridge - area you are photographing. It may be a good idea to visit the local police station and let them know of your plans.</p>

<p> </p>

[mariosforsos]

<p>"am I going to get hassled by the London police?" - unfortunately, almost certainly! I wouldn't say "hassled", but interrupted a few times, questioned in detail and even bothered if you're not able to show them, right there and then, what you're photographying, well, you can almost count on it. In fact, what's more likely to happen is for some stupid ignoramus private security person coming to you all puffed up and filled with unwarranted authority and demand you leave immediately. Naturally, you wont (because you don't have to) and they, after being truly obnoxious, will threaten to call the police which you will demand they do, the police will come, they will be VERY thorough in their questioning (but very polite) and, about 45 mins afterwards, you might be allowed to continue shooting. And this will happen almost EVERY time you take you tripod out...</p>

<p>The UK has done remarkable steps in working with photographers since the bombings and, normally, even when questioned, you won't have a problem shooting. However, given the parameters you've just mentioned, I'd say: forget it, at least for now.</p>

<p>As for Jerry's idea, it would be nice if you were at a smaller village or something, but not London - London is covered by dozens of police stations and, informing their thousands of PCs that "an Aussie is walking around with a big camera shooting stuff - please don't bother him" will be the lowest of low in their list of priorities. I was there shooting at a private golf course, WITH police attendance (for security reasons) and with all the associated permits and everything, and STILL a PC (not one of the ones working with us) came up to an assistant who was positioning a tripod across the street (for some panos) and questioned him about it! Go figure...</p>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>However, given the parameters you've just mentioned, I'd say: forget it, at least for now.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>My advice would be the reverse. Try it and see. Of the many thousands or millions of photographs which get taken every year in London, we only hear three or four reports of hassle from officers. The rest which do not attract police or security attention quite rightly do not get reported.<br>

If you do have any trouble it will only be for the obstruction caused by the tripod, not for the act of photographing something.</p>

[starvy]

<p>Mark,<br>

Here is an alternative approach - write a letter to the Home Secretary detailing your plans. Provide a list of all locations you wish to cover. Now include an inventory of your equipment of the shoot and a photocopy of your passport. Start a blog over this plan and every single step you take in achieving your shoot. Call the blog 'The return of the native'.<br>

You need to be making prints available for sale. Pleasure ensure that some of the profit from your prints go to the Great Ormond Street Children's hospital. At this stage it would be prudent to contact one of the local photographic galleries in East London and a local television station. Flocked by television camera you won't have anyone bothering you at all.</p>

[colin carron]

<p>I agree with Steve. Try it and see. It may well all depend on circumstances. For instances President Obama is due to make a state visit to the UK soon. If you were set up anywhere near his planned route the day before he is due you might well get moved on. Another day you would be fine. For the most part London is used to photographers, even crazy ones with a huge camera and tripod. Try not to get in people's way. Even at the dead of night some parts of London stay surprisingly busy. Be prepared with identification.</p>

<p>I think you are probably more likely to be in need of police assistance in London at night rather than wanting them to go away. Especially if you don't move in half an hour. Stick to well-lit and touristy places and keep a spare tripod handy for self defence.</p>

<p>Starvy's idea might just work though. Have a great trip!</p>

[robertbanks]

<p>For the uninitiated, the City of London refers to the financial area of London, AKA the Square Mile, its just over 1mile square but is littered with a lot of historical buildings - its busy with City types during the week and all but deserted at the weekends apart from a few well hidden late night clubs.</p>

<p>I've shot in the City a few times on a Sat and Sun, with a fashion model, plus makeup artist and assistants in tow, and have been approached by private security guards on many occasions. I've never actually been stopped by the police in the City though, but then its obvious that I'm photographing the model not a building...also as I mentioned its very quiet in the City at the weekend. I once did a Friday night shoot around Bank, and, as the OP experienced, the only hassle I got was from drunken City workers who insisted I take their picture with my model, which was fine until they started to hassle her too much.</p>

<p>I work in the City myself, and in the evenings I fairly often see guys with cameras on tripods shooting in the Bank area - for the ones I've seen, their tripods are as much as possible out of the way of pedestrians. They don't seem to have been hassled, but the police patrol the City quite intensively and so I would prepare to be approached, and have ID ready, maybe even a small portfolio of your work or references if possible, just to prove you are a legit photographer.</p>

<p>I was once approached by a security guard outside the Gherkin - only because I was there for some time waiting for the right light. He was concerned that I was trying to get shots of certain VIPs coming in and out of the building, but when I explained I wasn't and showed him a few of my test shots he was fine. He gave me the usual "advice": to move on after a few minutes.</p>

<p>Other concerns that security staff have is that "their" building will be used in a commercial photograph, and they've been told by the owner that permission, i.e. a building release, is required for this. In my case I only use the City for test/portfolio shots, so when I explain this they normally let me continue for 10mins, asking me move on before their supervisor comes back to check that they have dealt with me!</p>

<p>As far as other areas in central London go, you'll probably get more hassle from passers by. If you are shooting obvious tourist attractions, you're unlikely to be the only photographer with a tripod anyway, but again I would prepare to be approached.</p>

<p>One thing to watch out for is if you are on land owned by London Underground (they often own some of the land around stations). They don't seem to like tripods at all and have moved me on several times, although if you are nice they might let you finish your shot, as I have done before. You can apply for a permit from LU, but I've not tried this yet.</p>

<p>Around the Southbank, you can easily get a permit from the estate managment to shoot if you can show public liability insurance. I have done this before, and they let their security know, so I didn't get any hassle even after setting up a lightstand and umbrella (just use common sense to make sure its not an obstruction).</p>

<p>Another place that is notorious for hassling photographers is Canary Wharf, the other financial area in London. The whole area is private land, so they can pretty much move you on as they wish, even ban you from the estate if they like. I once did an official shoot there for a stylist, she managed to obtain permission, but a few weeks before that we did a test shoot to find locaitons and were approached by guards every 20mins or so (each time they said they would tell other guards not to approach us again - in the end I figured out they just wanted to check out my model!). But when we explained we were shooting officially in a few weeks time the guards were actually OK - even managed to get some shots inside One Canada Place (i.e. the large tower). Again the guard said to finish as soon as we could before their supervisor checked again.</p>

<p>As Marios mentions above various photography groups in the UK have been liaising with the police/Home Office over the last couple of years to clarify guidelines for these situations. This is in response to what seemed to be a crackdown and heavy handedness against any public photography done with anything bigger than a compact camera, especially in certain areas, the City being one of them. I think some of the groups may have produced a booklet, agreed with the Home Office/Police, that lays out these guidelines and the law. So if you are stopped you can whip this out and show the officer. To be honest though, I find that an amiable approach normally works, supply them with any information that they ask, even if its not strictly a legal requirement, and if they still insist you stop photographing and move on its best to comply. Sure you could become a photographers' rights champion by standing up to their authority, but I suspect your personal situation could become fairly uncomfortable for a few hours or even days! Its your call whether the shot is worth that or not.</p>

<p>Good luck,<br>

Rob</p>

[luis_g]

<p>I would be very tempted to forget about it and leave my hard-earned tourist money at a more photographer-friendly place. If every time one of these ultra-strict countries/states/cities needlessly questioned a photographer received a few thousand emails at the Tourist Commission/Chambers of Commerce etc. citing the incident, and explaining that you don't want to be harassed as a tourist, therefore you will be looking elsewhere, we would see a very quick shift in the way photographers are treated in these places. But of course, we do not stick together for ourselves and would rather hang alone.</p>

<p>But you have a project already under way...and in your shoes, I would write/contact to obtain permission beforehand in order to lessen the waste of time with the endless questioning. Is there someone from a production company that could secure permission for you ahead of time for a price? It may be worth it.</p>

<p> </p>

[mark_l6]

<p>Starvey, you're a genius! Brilliant lateral thinking. If I was up for a slice of fame I might even do just that.<br>

The other responses rather confirm what I was thinking, that when I started this project it was probably in a time of innocence that has gone forever due to the tube bombings and 9/11 which seem to be used as a means of controlling us like never before. I'm not yet put off but am wondering whether to use a wood and brass field camera as my sinar probably looks like some military device to an ignorant cop or rent-a-cop! I'm also wondering whether to approach all the copshops in the areas I wish to photograph in and maybe see if I can get them to check me out and sort of 'pre-approve' me and give me a letter to say this.<br>

As always all your responses are appreciated, thank you.</p>

[colin carron]

<p>Mark, shouldn't worry about which camera. I always used an MPP VII, which looks like a Linhof, and was never bothered by police and only rarely by anyone else. (see below). I would personally not worry about police as I doubt whether you will have any trouble with them. The large format camera is not the way a terrorist would operate. The number of silly incidents with photographers and police has dropped off a lot since the guidelines were clarified a year or so back. Just have ID ready and adopt 'the amiable approach' as advocated by Rob.</p>

<p>The only times I have been stopped or questioned (daytime both LF and 35mm) are as follows :</p>

<p>In pedestrian tunnel under Thames - Local Council worker - regulations forbid it. Moved on.<br />Outside building which turned out to be women's refuge - aggressive refuge worker thought I was a private detective - produced ID etc but agreed to move on. <br />Near a school playground - mother of child - explained I was photrographing building and produced docs to prove it. Carried on with the shots.<br />Asked by curious schoolkids in East London what I was doing. Explained and carried on.<br />Tried to get permission from London Underground to take pictures of Brunel's Thames Tunnel at Rotherhithe from the station platform. LU said - Not a chance.</p>

<p>I agree with Rob that London Underground hate tripods and Canary Wharf is a no-go area.<br />So there are a few places where you would get moved on and you might get some mild interest but otherwise, in my experience, you should be fine. Good luck and have a great trip!</p>