Best Buy advice for wide angle M lens

[HK71]

<p>Hi Folks;<br>

I am considering "the one and only wide angle lens" for my Leica M8 digital body. I am using 50mm summarit f/2,5 6 bit coded lens but I am not happy with the focal length. Since I decided to keep my Canon EOS 1ds(24-70 f/2,8L and70-200 f/4L IS combination), I just want to use my M8 just for wide angle candids. My options are limited. I am considering Zeiss 25mm f 2,8 Biogon T*, Voigtlander 24 f/2 Ultron because of the 1,33 crop factor. I will sell my 50 mm summarit but till that time I will buy one of the wide angle lenses available with a good price. Leica 24-28 mm Wide angles are out of my budget. It is nearly impossible to find a second hand in good condition with a reasonable price. So, before you comment: yes I know the best scenario is to use Leica body with Leica lens but I can live with the 90/100 performance of the 3rd party quality lenses compared to Leica ones. I have seen 3rd party(Voigtlander Pancakes) performance and I am happy with it. I like the discreet feel and simple technology of rangefinders. I do not want to gamble my 1500 bucks on someones 20 year old lens sold on e-bay, just because "its Leica" since there is no option(inspect in detail, try and buy) for me in Turkey.<br>

Anybody used Ultron or Biogon? What is your experience about these two lenses? If you used both that would be first thing I would like to hear.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance;<br>

Hakan Karademir</p>

[steve_levine]

<p>I've owned both the 21 and 25 CSV Skpoar's, and I can't say a bad word about either lens. Even wide open these were edge to edge sharp. Stopped down both were joys to use, crisp,contrasty and sharp. All in all, these performed like glass costing many times more than they do.</p><div></div>

[Farkle-Mpls]

<p>Hakan,</p>

<p>I too think the CV 21/4 is a fine lens, particularly for the price. I like the fact that I can throw it on my LTM bodies as well, although that may not matter in your situation.</p>

<p>Here are some example shots taken just ten days ago at Kennedy Space Center, the day before shuttle Discovery's final launch. Camera was a Leica M7 and I was shooting the new Portra 400 (for the speed).</p>

<p>Sorry that these are obvious "tourist" shots but, well, I was a tourist! No fine art here ...</p><div></div>

[Farkle-Mpls]

<p>Another ... this one outdoors in low night. Shot at F4.0 in Memphis TN (returning from Florida).</p><div></div>

[Farkle-Mpls]

<p>Last one ... you may find this one useful because it will highlight barrel distortion in the lens. Check out the Saturn V engine cones at the edge to see what distortion you may get at 21mm (and F5.6). Also, the grid work in the ceiling is a useful reference point for distortion. I may have been standing at a weird angle relative to the stuff on the right side of the image so I'm not sure what to make of that.</p>

<p>Of course, you're shooting an M8 so you won't be shooting edge-to-edge like my M7 so your results would be even better, I expect.</p><div></div>

[frederick_muller]

<p>The 28mm f1.9 VC Ultron is a fine all-around lens. It's probably my most-used wide ange. Not as dramatic in its effects as a 21mm, but that also means it is more suitable for general use. The 25mm f4 VC Skopar is also very good, but vignettes more. The 25mm f2.8 Zeiss Biogon is outstanding, but pricier. The 28mm f2.8 Konica Hexanon-M is excellent, but harder to find. The 28mm f2.8 Canon is good, but vulnerable to flare, and it is hard to find. The 28mm f3.5 VC Skopar has super build quality and is a good performer, but a tad slow. All-in, I think your best bet a a used 28mm f1.9 VC Ultron.</p>

[aplumpton]

<p>I use the 28mm f1.9 VC lens (there is now an f2 upgrade) on my M8 and film bodies, but on the M8 it is only an effective 37mm. It is a very satisfactory lens for most work, but I prefer to have at least an effective 28mm field of view and DOF and a 21mm lens is then necessary. I use a Leica 21mm lens (which I could not afford at today's increased prices) and don't know much about the 21mm VC lens, but I understand the Zeiss 25mm is a very fine lens. </p>

[berg_na]

<p>There is an issue with using Zeiss lenses on the M8 that you should consider: unless you add the coding that the M8 needs, you may experience color artifacts and vignetting (<a href="http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/85881-zeiss-zm-35-f-2-m8.html">see this thread</a>). Maybe Arthur could comment on how he deals with this issue.</p>

[john_shriver]

<p>Ken Rockwell, while you may like or dislike his site or his manic affection for Velvia 50, has some wise things to say about lenses for Leica cameras, particularly for the M8 and M9. He notes that the rear nodal point of the Voigtländer/Cosina 21/4 is just too close to the sensor to get acceptable results on M8 or M9. Same applies to some other Voigtländer/Cosina lenses. Check his comments about this issue on any lens you consider.<br /> The 28/2.8 ASPH is supposed to be "the price deal" for the M8. Tony Rose at PopFlash.Photo has a used one, but it's only $133 less than the new price of $2000.<br>

Ken is quite right on one point -- a Leica lens is an investment, not an expense. So long as you take care of it, if bought used, you can certainly get your money back, sometimes even if bought new. (The exception being buying a new Noctilux.)</p>

 

[HK71]

<p>Dear Carl;<br>

Thank you for your reference pics. I think with M8, the performance of the 21mm would be much more better. I am really wondering the performance of Voigtlander 24 f/2 Ultron. Because 35mm is "the lens" for classic M6-M7, its my favorite. The focal length 24mm would be 32mm because of the crop factor. I do not really prefer a wider focal length, because I want to use it for candid portraits and sometimes I want to come little bit closer to the people.<br>

Dear Berg,<br>

I haven't heard color artifacts and vignetting about Zeiss M lenses till now. I will search about this issue.<br>

Dear John;<br>

I have read Ken Rockwell's site once about this issue. I am aware of his warnings about rear nodal point. I don't know if the situation is the same with 24mm f/2,0 Ultron. My ideal lens in my mind is also 28 f/2,8 but it has not reasonable price for me to consider for now. If I can sell my 50mm f/2,5 summarit then I would -certainly- consider 28 f/2,8. Ken insists on that even its better than summicron version.</p><div></div>

[aplumpton]

<p>Berg, as one used to vignetting with high speed lenses wide open or even a few stops down, the uncorrected vignetting with my Leica and VC lenses on the M8 is not a problem for me (in any case, the edges of the lens field is not even recorded on the small sensor M8). For most photography I use the 486 filter but don't miss any further specific Leica lens correction by not having the six bit coding. Perhaps I am not as critical as others, and while I am not keen on major color manipulation one sees in a lot of Photoshop post exposure, I am not botherred by slight inaccuracies in color that might be produced on occasion by the Leica firmware.</p>

<p>The thing that bothers me most, but which is fairly easy corrected, is the sometimes poor white balance of the M8 in the auto white balance mode.</p>

[berg_na]

<p>Arthur - Thanks for sharing your experience with using uncoded lenses. I've avoided using non-Leica lenses because of issues related to the lack of coding that many have reported. Regarding the poor white balance of the M8, I assume that you have loaded the latest firmware, ver. 2.005 on your camera? I have not noticed any issues, in terms of incorrect auto white balance, indoors and outdoors, with my M8.</p>

[kbg32]

<p>The Zeiss 25/2.8 Biogon is a great lens and I have had no issues with mine on either my M8 or M9. No vignetting whatsoever. Make sure you use a UV/IR filter on your M8. </p>

[Alex_Es]

<p>More often the not the truth is the opposite of whatever Ken Rockwell says. I've had no problems with any Voigtlander lenses on my M8. The Color Skopar 21/4 and the two Ultron 28s work well too. (I now use a Summicron 28/2 with the M8 but that has a lot to do with the build quality and the the d.o.f scale as it does with image quality, which is simply the best.) The new Color Skopar 25/4 P is a gem on the M8. I wrote an article about for <em>Viewfinder</em> a few in and the M8 in 2007.</p>

<p>Which wide-angle to get if you can only have one? Get a used Elmarit 28/2.8. which will give you a respectable 37mm 35mm equ. Or get the Color Skopar 25/4 P. Or get a used Summicron 35/2. That's lens I use most often on my M8. </p>

[jim_buchanan]

<p>While my "normal" lens on my M8 is the 35mm Summicron with about 47mm EFOV, I have chosen the ZM 25 for my only wide at about 33mm EFOV. I've put alot of thought into this and feel the ZM25 is a keeper for the M8 and will give as good performance on the M9, if I ever upgrade. I don't feel the 2 lenses are too close together. The ZM Biogons are excellent alternatives to the Leica lenses.<br>

I suppose the ZM18, with a 24mm EFOV, would fit nicely into my M8 lens lineup, but that $1000 could go a long way in a M9 upgrade and the ZM25 could really show that corner sharpness.</p>