andrew_west5 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Alright, so I have a dilemma here. My fiancée's cousin is getting married in August. The bride-to-be also happens to be her best friend. As you might imagine, she'd really like to be there. Before plans changed, her and I were actually supposed to be in the wedding.</p><p>Due to some family drama, the traditional church ceremony was scrapped in favor of a destination wedding. They found a Caribbean cruise they loved and booked it yesterday. Unfortunately, we don't have the money or means to raise a few thousand dollars in six months. We talked about it, and decided it just wasn't practical for us to try to go. I suggested, if we didn't have the money for both of us, that she go without me, but she didn't like idea. Understandable, since everyone else would be coupled.</p><p>She just called, having spent the day looking at dresses with the bride, and told me that the bride's mom offered to pay for my room (it's a package deal, so meals included) on the ship. This is extremely generous, but there are still a few issues:</p> <ol><li>We still have to cover my airfare and any other expenses.</li><li>She isn't paying for my fiancée, so we'll also need to cover the $700+ for the cruise in addition to her airfare and whatever else comes up.</li><li>She is offering this in exchange for my services as a photographer. This is why I am here.</li></ol> <ol> </ol><p>All things being equal, if I had experience shooting weddings and the right equipment, I'd probably do it and wouldn't be posting this. However, I have never shot a wedding in my life and, though I have done some group photography, I've never covered an event.<br><br />As far as equipment, my inventory looks like this, more or less:</p><ol> </ol> <ul><li>Fuji s3 Pro (the closest I have to a backup body is a P&S that may or may still work)</li><li>Nikon 55-200mm f4-5.6 VR</li><li>Nikon 50mm f1.8</li><li>Nikon sb600</li><li>Yongnuo RF-602 Wireless Flash Trigger</li><li>Lexar 4GB CF Card</li><li>Sunpak Pro-something Tripod with Pistol Grip Head</li><li>Assorted odds and ends such as spare batteries, emergency flash slave (optical), and electrical tape</li></ul><p>I brought up not being confident in my equipment or experience to shoot a wedding solo, but the bride and groom weren't having any of that.<br /><br />If I scrounge, I might be able to pull together $500, give or take, to invest in equipment. I'm not entirely sure what I should be looking at. I have a basic understanding of a wedding/event photographer's checklist, but I have no clue what the absolute minimum setup would be. Is it impossible to work with $500? What kind of budget do I need? <br /><br />The wedding will be on board the ship before we leave port. I already asked for more information, though I have a feeling we won't really know until we're there. As of right now, I'm not even sure if it's going to be indoor or outdoor. Though, considering August is in the middle of Florida's rainy season, I wouldn't place any bets. <br /><br />I know this forum sees more than its share of ill-prepared amateurs trying to wring some money out of a hobby, but this situation is a little different. I don't want to disappoint friends by turning it down and not going, but I'm also afraid I'll agree to do it and let them down as a photographer.<br><br /><br />Any advice here?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parv Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Interesting dynamics there. Your fiancée is closer to the cousin; cousin's mother would cover room & board for you being there as the photographer; the marrying couple apparently insists you to be the photographer; your fiancée does not want to be at the wedding alone, but you may go by yourself. Since you are not sure about your abilities & need to acquire funds, you could cut your losses, financial or otherwise, by hiring a photographer for them & make the marrying couple understand the reasons which they don't have to accept. After some time, they may accept your absence as well. OTOH, if you really want to be on the ship, just go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acedigital Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Read all the great Intro to Wedding Photography tips here - and if that does not intimidate you a bit, go for it. You MAY want to take a pass on this, sounds like a recipe for trouble, unless you can get some wedding 2nd shooter experience first. Good Luck!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartMoxham Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Personaly if I were in your shoes I would not do it. You don't have experience shooting wedding you don't have much faith in your equipment or abilities. You need to spend money on airfare to get there plus you need to pay for your fiancée cruise and her airfare and you need to borrow or buy backup equipment. I just don't see too many positives in that list. When they booked the wedding on the ship did they not get the option to book a photography package with the onboard photographers?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariosforsos Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>I too would advise you to pass on this, not only because of the photography-related issues but also for the issues pertaining to the dynamics parv mentioned. "Danger Will Robinson, danger!"</p> <p>However, IF you decide to go for it, rather than buying equipment, rent it. It will come far cheaper, you can afford more for less and this means that you can have the equipment you need to shoot this wedding. Ideally, you'd need a fast zoom lens, say the 17-55 f/2.8 and a good fast tele, say the 70-200 f/2.8 (it doesn't even have to be the second generation one - the first will do fine on your camera). Rent a cheap (say a D3000) backup body and a SB800 or SB900 and all that should come at less than 400-500 for a long weekend rental, giving you ALL the tools you need.</p> <p>Now, of course, it's all down to your skills, experience, etc, etc, etc - it's been discussed to death here (and everywhere). Train, shoot countless times, go to EVERY single wedding you can between now and then - the recipe is endless and if you feel okay, go for it....</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverhaas Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>As Stuart pointed out - did they have an option of having the ship's photographers doing the photos? Most cruise lines have their own photo staffs and they do weddings on the ship. Not sure of the charges - but it is probably in line with what they are going to spend for you to do it. </p> <p>Equipment wise - you're fine with the S3 pro - that was a wedding standard for a few years. The SB600 is a good enough flash for a wedding, and the 50 mm f1.8 is a good lens for close ups and formals. </p> <p>Missing: Backup body (not cheap) , extra memory cards (cheap), Fast zoom lens (not cheap), backup flash (not cheap) and flash modifier (cheap) </p> <p>Cheap is defined as under $100.00 - not cheap - over $100.00 </p> <p>For a backup body - any used Nikon DSLR would work - or you could try to grab another S3 off of flea bay. </p> <p>Fast zoom is essential - those run from $300 or so up to $2,220 depending on what you get. I'd start with a Tamron 17-50 f2.8 - it's more in the $300 range</p> <p>Flash backup - get a 2nd sb 600 if you can. </p> <p>Flash modifier - something to tone down the flash a bit. Gary fong is good as are other soft boxes. </p> <p>Understanding that they are family - and friends - is the first point - understanding your limitations is the second. You seem to be there on the limitations part. You need to lay out the list of equipment and costs for getting the additional gear - then go back and add in the costs of the airfare, cruise for your fiancée, and balance that against the family problems caused by a) you not doing the wedding b) you doing the wedding and blotching it and c) you doing the wedding and having it turn out. </p> <p>Personally - If I had never done a wedding before and didn't have the proper backup equipment - I'd pass on this one. </p> <p>Dave</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sattler123 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Even considering this is crazy IMHO. You don't have the money to go on this cruise, even if you accept the wedding photographer gig, you have no experience in shooting weddings, you have no backup equipment, etc. ecc.</p> <p>Sometimes we just have to face the realities of life, which in your case is simple: you cannot afford to attend this wedding - plain and simple. Trust me, there are more important things in life - like not going broke, being one of them or losing a friend because your pictures didn't turn out the way they wanted them.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff_nj Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Take a pass on this one.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Javkin Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>If you should get on that ship as the photographer under the circumstances you describe, see if the crew will lower a small lifeboat for you, and row away as fast as you can.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayt Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Do it and have fun.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_stott Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Gear aside, let me see if I have this straight:</p> <p>You will pay for airfare for the two of you to and from the cruise.<br> Your fiancee's cruise will cost approximately $700.<br> You plan to spend $500 on equipment.<br> You are not experienced in this area of photography.</p> <p>This seems like a huge risk that only saves you $200 on the entire trip (and I wouldn't count on that by the time you actually pack your gear to leave). </p> <p>If I were in your shoes I'd go as a guest and save the stress. Go as a guest, shoot for free with the gear you have, and politely decline their "generous" offer. </p> <p>If you wind up doing it anyway, be absolutely certain that your CONTRACT states that you are not a professional wedding photographer and that everybody involved understands that. Be aware that there are lots of emotions involved and that you could potentially be playing with fire with people that will be in your family for the foreseeable future. </p> <p>Good luck and have fun whatever you decide!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian_ribinik Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Would not do that. I smell trouble.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_mann1 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>a) Suggest to the family that they investigate using the ship's photographer. Offer to be a 2nd (free) shooter / "Uncle Bob" at the ceremony, assuming the ship's photographer will go along with this.</p> <p>b) If you are hell-bent on doing this, between now and August, find several local weddings at which you can volunteer to be a 2nd shooter (or at least an "Uncle Bob with a good camera") and get plenty of experience between now and then. This is likely not to be as easy as it sounds.</p> <p>Tom M</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Only you can gauge whether your relationship to the bride and/or the couple's families may be damaged by your photographic results. No one can do that for you. It depends entirely upon the couple. Some couples are happy with anything. Others are very picky--and become even more so after they see the results.</p> <p>Still, they will probably consider your paid passage the 'fee' for wedding photography. If it were me, I would do one of two things. Pull myself together and know I can do the job like a pro, in exchange for passage, or decline to do the photography, and consequently decline their 'offer'. Whether to then pull the money together on your end and go without being the official, paid wedding photographer would be entirely up to you. If you take their offer, definitely have a contract.</p> <p>That aspect aside, if you decide to do it, just use the gear you have, particularly since money is an issue. The only thing I'd suggest is to get a Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 zoom--they can be purchased used as well. I don't agree that you <strong>need </strong>a fast zoom, and if you want to use a flash modifier, make one out of white foamie material.</p> <p>As for back up gear, take the P&S if you are doing it without being the official wedding photographer. If you are doing it and are the official wedding photographer, you <strong>must</strong> have a suitable back up.</p> <p>Do you know how big the cruise ship is? If the very large ones, you may find the tripod useful. If much smaller, it may not be that useful. If the latter, you will definitely need the wider focal lengths.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>As I understand the question, the Function is ON BOARD a "Cruise line" vessel. (I.e. the Ship is the "Venue" for the function and is charging for the event?)<br> If so: The first fact I would want to know, is in regard to any contractual arrangement there are shooting "professionally" on board - here (AUS) most Cruise-line vessels have on board photographers to shoot Cruise Line managed events, exclusively. </p> <p>WW</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardsnow Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>As David Haas has pointed out, this will end up one of three ways:</p> <p>1) You shoot the wedding, have a great time (or possibly stress out over the whole thing), and everything comes out. Your friends/family love you for it and all is well!</p> <p>2) You shoot the wedding, have a great time (or possibly stress out over the whole thing), and nothing comes out. Your friends/family may still love you, but how would you feel if your photographer botched your wedding.</p> <p>3) You politely decline shooting the wedding. You don't stress about it from now until August, and you spend the money you saved on rentals/new equipment, airfare, and your wife's cruise ticket and take a nice long weekend trip with your wife.</p> <p>As long as your friends/family will understand why you decline, you will have a 66% chance of making the right decision. If, however, they don't understand, your chances of everything turning out drops to 33%...and everything would have to go right.</p> <p>Personally, I'd calmly explain your concerns about your experience and equipment to the bride and groom and politely decline. Then offer to put them in touch with an experienced professional or the ship's photographer.</p> <p> If they don't understand that they are putting you in a situation that could potentially damage your relationship forever, perhaps that's how you should explain it to them. </p> <p>RS</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indraneel Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Not to discourage you, but it might be difficult to issue a refund if you spend all your money taking the gig! This one mixes business and pleasure far too much for my taste...</p> <p>Also, strange as it may sound, your fiancee might be able to give you better advise on what to do here.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenseelig Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Pass on it.. not worth the anxiety and potential future family problems. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <blockquote> <p>Due to some family drama...</p> </blockquote> <p>This, by itself, is a red flag warning you to run away from these scheme.</p> <p>Here's some more reality...</p> <p>The dismissal of your legitimate concerns. Note that the reaction was not just "Don't worry". You wrote the B&G "weren't having any of that'. You don't write it in such a fashion for no good reason. New drama is being heaped on you already. The initial contact was made in the form of an offer but hedging or wavering refusal will bring resistance and pressure.</p> <p>Then there is the double airfare, the cruise fee and extra expenses. Note the lack of planning if something goes wrong (not unheard of with travel). Who is going to cover your shoot and eat all the $$ spent on your accommodations that were purchased solely for the photography. The drama will be titanic in that event.</p> <p>Then there are the consequences if the imagery is not up to par (which is a very real possibility considering this quote: "I have never shot a wedding in my life and... I've never covered an event.") Even if unspoken and subtle it will be drama nevertheless. There is also the hours and hours of training and buying new equipment to try to get up to par all for a one time event. Either way, you lose.</p> <p>This isn't a case of need. They evidently have enough money to hire someone. They feel there should be some kind of photography, in principle, but don't care enough about the photography to have someone with experience handle it or they don't care about your feelings and accurate concerns raised about it. This family decided to have a wedding far away. The hassle and expense of hiring someone to go on the ship was something they brought on themselves. Now you are being expected to make up for their decisions and literally pay your on way on top of it.</p> <p>Nip this thing, decisively, in the bud now.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagesax Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Read a mess of past forum questions. I bet there are at least 100. About shooting on boats. Bring a short zoom. The quarters are tight. Leave the large lenses home. Water is a bitch on boats, waves, mist, hitting your camera gear will surely wreck it. Always keep your gear covered. Try to use some sort of plastic to cover most of your cameras and the lenses. Carry extra cameras. A 4 GB card is good, but you need to buy about 3 more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Bob--some very large cruise ships are like shooting in large hotel ballrooms, and if this is the case, you don't hardly feel any motion from the waves either. It depends on the size of the cruise ship...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfidaho Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 <p>Howdy!</p> <p>FWIW, I botched my first wedding. But I didn't charge them anything, they knew I was a beginner, and they didn't care. Plus, they got some lovely engagement pictures in the park, where I actually knew what I was doing.</p> <p>The most likely outcome is that after you botch your first wedding you will be stuck on a boat with many dissatisfied customers, including the MOB who paid your way.</p> <p>I can't think of a more hellish scenario. Go on a cruise with the B&G later someday when you can afford to pay your own way, and bid them Bon Voyage for now. It beats walking the plank.</p> <p>Later,</p> <p>Paulsky</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_livacich Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 <p>It's ridiculous. In essence, you get to pay for the privilege of being their photographer, and all you get in return is a chance to go on a cruise by yourself with these people.</p> <p>The B&G "weren't having any of that"? So can you.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 <blockquote> <p>offered to pay for my room (it's a package deal, so meals included) on the ship. This is extremely generous,</p> </blockquote> <p>Generous, much less, extremely so? One wonders if a block of rooms results in a discounted rate meanwhile there is no offer for real out of pocket expenses of airfare and anything else in exchange for your labor and hours or practice and learning. You may be 'encouraged' to cover the overall experience and other events on the ship. After all you are being treated to 'extreme generosity'. Lots of fun on that trip. Even an all expense paid trip would a burdensome experience.</p> <blockquote> <p>If I scrounge, I might be able to pull together $500, give or take, to invest...</p> </blockquote> <p>Having to actually scrounge and pay hard to earned money? That's fitting for bailing someone out of jail or something but to work for free for the sake of working for free?</p> <p>The good news is that the initial explanation for declining this "extremely generous" offer before making any commitments is simple and honest. "I/we can't afford to go on the trip". If the offer suddenly improves you still can't afford it. If need be simply explain that "I also learned there is much more work and investment to do a wedding shoot than realized and I am unable to take on such a responsibility". The final stage, if it gets this far, is that you will be told not to worry and just show up and shoot and they will be happy no matter what. This is the point where there is no doubt left that you are being pressured. Here, you just thank them for their interest but that you won't be going on the trip. In addition to avoiding this one situation, it will deter you from being volunteered as the photographer for all sorts of future in law family events. Then you can decide to do such things if you wish to.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherijohnson Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 <p>one thing I will mention is that you may need a wider lens than the ones you listed.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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