70 lmtd vs. 40 lmtd vs. 50 1.7 fa

[jdemoss99]

<p>Ok my question here is, I have an upcoming photo shoot with a friend that wants to put a book of pics of herself together for her husband for their anniversary. Now my question is I have a 40 limited and and 50 1.7 but, I can rent a 70 limited and wondered if I would be better off renting that lens instead of using my 40 and 50. 80% of the pics will be outside and most will be half and full body shots, I really want to make sure and get the best pics possible. I think on most of them I want to try and shoot as open as possible to get that great bokeh feel to the pics. we are shooting a lot of wooded old barn and railroad shots, most will be early morning and late afternoon shots. So am I better off renting the 70 or staying with what I have. I know its been a while since I have posted so as always thanks for the help. Oh and I will be shooting with my K20D.</p>

[johnw436]

<p>I have both the 40 and 70 Limited. For what you are planning to do I don't think you'll see any difference. The 40 is great wide open, so you can throw the background out of focus fairly easily, even close up. (I'm sure you knew that, since you already own the lens.) </p>

<p>I am partial to the 70 overall, but for this application I would probably use the 40 anyway. You will likely be indoors for the barn shots and the 70 might present problems such as backing up far enough for the shot. </p>

<p> </p>

[markus maurer]

<p>The 50mm would be fine for me but I would also carry a wider lens for shots showing the full body and/or the surrounding and a flash for fill light.</p>

[rparmar]

<p>You can certainly do what you need with the lenses you have, though an off-camera flash or a reflector will help with the light (as mentioned). I don't think the difference between 50mm and 70mm on APS-C is going to make as much difference as how comfortable and prepared you are.</p>

[john_shriver]

<p>On an APS-C DSLR, the 70mm becomes an effective 105mm. For portraiture, that's a tight head, or maybe head-and-shoulders shot. Doesn't sound like what you're trying to do.<br>

Just keep your distance with the 40mm and 50mm, and you should be fine.</p>

[jdemoss99]

<p>ok as far as flash my thoughts are since I have never really messed with flash that much I thought I would rent before buying one to see how I like it. My choices for flash are the Pentax AF360FGZ or the Pentax AF540FGZ, I can rent either one of these and thought I would do one or the other when I do this shoot, opinions on this topic</p>

[jgredline]

<p>To be honest, I would be the least of the least to offer advice on this as I have never done a formal model shoot. But I have shot hundreds of ''street models'' as in street portraits and I can't imagine shooting with a 70mm lens. I found the 50 tough to shoot with as I like to get up close and personal. I think Markus is pretty close to what I would think in that a wider lens may be more beneficial so you can get some context as well. I have the the 40 and the 50 and the difference is huge on the wide end but no so much on the long end. I have found my new DA35F/2.4 to be a great lens and think this would be even better than the 40. With the K20D you have plenty of crop room if you need it. Heck, maybe even a 28mm lens would be better? </p>

 

[jdemoss99]

<p>Javier what about flash</p>

[jgredline]

<p>Joran, to be honest, I know nothing about flash, sorry.</p>

[jeremy_corbin]

<p>Jordan, if the daylight is good (don't shoot when the sun is right overhead) there should be no need for flash. If you shoot around 4pm you should have some beautiful light coming from the west. If it's morning, go for 9am or so. (it IS winter after all)</p>

<p>I usually shoot long when I'm outside: my 85/2 or my 135/2.8. But if you want to be able to interact with the subjects, the 40/2.8 should be fine, but if you're wanting them to really enjoy each other and the moment that they're sharing... back up and shoot long so you can stay out of that moment but be able to capture the intimacy....</p>

<p>Overall, be prepared with what you already have. The biggest thing I would do is talk to them and prepare them to have fun.</p>

[htarragon]

<p>"...<em><strong>photo shoot with a friend that wants to put a book of pics of herself for her husband</strong></em>".<br>

Jeremiah, Jordan will only be shooting his friend, not the couple. But, I agree with you that longer would be better.<br>

I am definitely no expert, having done exactly two planned shoots with my K10D and several ad hoc, with strangers.<br>

Jordan, to me, if you've still got the 18-250, you should use it. It will allow distance for full body shots without having a lot of background to crop out. If you want bokeh, a telephoto will give that to you. I know you also like wide angle shots, like Christie on the tracks, which was taken at 20mm (I checked your portfolio). What you want to be able to do is compose in camera, so minimal PS is necessary for composition. Also, an f/2.0 or 2.8 will give you very little DOF, which can be critical when on a shoot. I know she will be posing, but sometimes a spontaneous movement will give a great shot, but might be lost with minimal DOF.<br>

I'm most comfortable shooting candids and portraits with my 50-200mm, so you can see my bias. On my two planned shoots, I thought I would go mad trying to use my flash and/or reflector. If you're not used to them, the shoot is not the time to practice.<br>

Are the barns and tracks meaningful for her and her husband? I know they are familiar to you. Check out the locations they would find meaningful, for light during the AM and PM.<br>

Good luck and have fun!</p>

<p> </p>

[michael_kuhne]

<p>To each their own preferred effects, but I very frequently do use fill flash with outdoor shots. For daylight fill, even the built-in flash can work fine, if shooting from a fairly close distance, as under bright conditions red-eye is unlikely to be a problem. </p>

<p>I think your 40mm should serve well for the type of shots you describe. </p>

[markus maurer]

<p>As said, use what you have, a new flash needs time to learn and the integrated can be fine for fills. Focus *exactly* on the eyes, sometimes manual focussing is more accurate than autofocus and watch out for disturbing backgrounds. Have fun!</p>

[mel_unruh]

<p>Jordan,<br>

Full and half body shots - Of the three listed, I'd use either the 50 or the 70. The 70 comes with a decent lens hood as I recall. The 50 1.7 is just recessed a little. SO GET A LENS HOOD. However, for outdoor shots like you're talkin about, I would strongly suggest the 50-150 zoom. GASP! (the Z word) :-)<br>

In a studio environment where shots are at a slower pace, the primes are great. But in an outdoor setting you will want a zoom. I think this is especially true for your style. You tend to shoot and then crop later. Imagine if the sun is begining to set and you get that beautiful "golden hour" light and it catches your models' eyes just right and everything is perfect and you think "Wow" that would make a great head or head & shoulders shot. Remember, the sun is not standing still and you only have a few seconds. Do you want to nail it with the zoom or grab the full length and run in and try to get the head shot? But wait, you're using a 50mm. Get in too tight and you still get the dreaded "dog nose" effect. Oh no! Now what? You see, the zoom gives you options that you won't know you need untill you're there. Also, when you start getting in tighter, you want you portrait to pop. You want the compression that you get with a longer lens. Most of the top glamour guys favor the 70-210 in FF (or the 50-150 with a C sensor) for this reason.<br>

Next, bring the flash... but try not to use it if at all possible. Instead use a reflector (silver). Position your model in some shade the is near the sun. Then use the reflector to push the light to your subject. You will want to hold the reflector high so as to relect light down at 45 degrees if possible. No reflector? Make one with some foil and some foam core. Just crinkle it up and put it shiney side out. Bigger is better. Flash can work, but the tendancy is to over light the subject. But sometimes flash is the only answer, so bring it.<br>

Hope this helps.<br>

Mel</p>

<p> </p>

[rparmar]

<p>Yes, you need a lens hood no matter what the lens.</p>

<p>Yes, a flash is needed in the daytime. In fact that's <em>the only time</em> it is needed since most people don't choose to shoot models in the dark.</p>

<p>But, no, don't rent a flash and then rush out to use it in a shoot. Knowing how to use a flash properly is much more difficult than knowing how to use available light properly, and it's not something you can learn in a few hours (or days). So concentrate instead on where you place the model in the available light.</p>

<p>No, you don't need a zoom or any other lens than those you already have. Though I am not a pro portrait photographer I have done a few paid jobs and use the FA77 and FA43 exclusively. They produce nicer rendering than any zoom and that's what its important to me. Certainly different focal lengths produce different effects due to geometric distortion. If you have a particular look or framing in mind you may want a specific focal length. But it's not the most important aspect if you are just starting out.</p>

<p>(I have written an article about this subject. If you wish to know more, read <a href="http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2010/07/perspective-distortion-sensor-size-and.html">Perspective Distortion, Sensor Size And Portraiture</a>)</p>

<p><em>It's not about the gear.</em> Your session will not be made better by hurrying to buy some new hardware. It <em>will </em>be made better by:</p>

<ul>

<li>choosing time of day for beneficial light</li>

<li>scouting locations and planning shooting positions in advance</li>

<li>building a rapport with the model</li>

<li>planning costume/make-up/hair etc. with her</li>

<li>having an assistant to help you</li>

<li>having backups of all your gear (bring the 40mm <em>and </em>50mm, have another body on hand, etc.)</li>

<li>communicating</li>

<li>being confident enough to have a relaxed session</li>

</ul>

<p>Have fun!</p>

<p>P.S. The reflector is a good idea if you have an assistant to help with it. Otherwise it's just another thing to divert your attention from your main tasks.</p>

[mel_unruh]

<p>Robin,<br>

Good points. However, OP does not own the 70. We was going to rent. My reccomendation was based on issues he has run into in the past and my own experience as a portrait photographer. The 70 is a fine lens as is the 50 and the 43. All are outstanding and will do an excellent job on full or half body shots. However, If he's going to go rent a lens, then the 50-150 will give more creative options. This is especially true outdoors where things are somewhat in a state of flux. The model can turn her head a certain way and give you a look that is only available at that second. You can move in and reset everything and no matter how hard you try you can't get the exact same look again (although you may get close). Unlike fishing where we get to talk about "the one that got away", in portraiture its all about getting THE shot.<br>

You are also correct in that I left out a very important piece of gear... The assistant! You definately need someone to hold up the reflector.<br>

Mel</p>

 

[johnw436]

<p>The 40Ltd has an integral lens hood. I've never had flare using it, and most of my shooting is the Florida sunshine.</p>

[jeremy_corbin]

<p>Howard, apparently I need to stop being on pnet when I'm exhausted and heading to bed!</p>

<p>Mel, The z-word is awful!!! Though I have fantasized about the 50-150... and the Tamron 70-200...</p>

<p>For me what it really comes down to is this: Will what you already own do the work you're asking it to do. The answer, of course, is yes. I'd love the DA70, but it's not going to happen. I have other things on my list in line before it. Take what you have and roll with it. As others have suggested, you <em>could</em> get a reflector, but don't get one of those $50 30-in-1 kits unless you're going to be doing a lot of these. Walmart silver sun shades work great for that stuff in a pinch, and for ~$10 it's a steal.</p>

<p>Robin said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>It's not about the gear.</em> Your session will not be made better by hurrying to buy some new hardware. It <em>will </em>be made better by:</p>

<ul>

<li>choosing time of day for beneficial light</li>

<li>scouting locations and planning shooting positions in advance</li>

<li>building a rapport with the model</li>

<li>planning costume/make-up/hair etc. with her</li>

<li>having an assistant to help you</li>

<li>having backups of all your gear (bring the 40mm <em>and </em>50mm, have another body on hand, etc.)</li>

<li>communicating</li>

<li>being confident enough to have a relaxed session</li>

</ul>

</blockquote>

<p>Robin's words are more important than gear, especially scouting AT THE TIME OF DAY that you'll be shooting. Some places look gross at noon, but that same location is a gold mine in the evening.</p>

<p>And I stick by what I said... Have fun! If you're not having fun shooting than why are you doing it?! :-)</p>

[rparmar]

<p>Mel Unruh wrote:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Unlike fishing where we get to talk about "the one that got away", in portraiture its all about getting THE shot.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It is a matter of approach, perhaps, but I like to create a situation where there are continuous opportunities to capture a good shot. In this way it's never about the one that got away since another fish swims along soon thereafter. To do this requires manipulating the milieu in which the photos are being taken, more than it requires controlling or reacting to the components on a moment by moment basis.</p>

<p>To carry the analogy forward, when it comes to portrait sessions, I prefer fishing in a stocked pool. :-)</p>

[htarragon]

<p>Jeremiah - Been there, done that :-)<br>

Jordan - be careful with the barn shots, you may run into high contrast. You've done them before, so you know about this. Just a reminder.<br>

Will you be showing us the results?</p>

[andrewg_ny]

<p>The 40 for torso, 70 (preferred) for head & shoulders. Could use a 50 or 100 for head & shoulders too.</p>

<p>Recommend not running out and getting a flash right before the shoot. It will be a distraction and without experience/practice, it will probably degrade your images rather than improve. A reflector (even makeshift) might be a better choice if you want some fill because you'll be able to see the effect before shooting and maybe better manage color issues. When it comes time to get a flash (generally-speaking a good addition to your kit), either unit would be fine. For daylight sync/fill purposes, you get a little more power with the 540 which might be nice for HSS, but the extra swivel capability may not be as particularly useful when not bouncing.</p>

[jdemoss99]

<p>Howard I might being showing them, depends on how they look, this shoot is a biggy and I am nervous enough, lol</p>

[htarragon]

<p>Jordan - you've taken good portraits in the past. The only thing I might suggest - if you're going to use a prime - is zoom in with you're feet. Catching the focus on her eyes will be easier and you won't need to crop afterwards. Having a conversation will be easier as well, which will relax the two of you and give natural expressions.<br>

Don't worry about us, focus on her - Oh no, did I say that? :-)</p>

[jdemoss99]

<p>Howard should I focus camera on eyes or tip of nose when getting focus point</p>

[markus maurer]

<p>Please reread what I wrote about focussing Jordan and have an eye on exposure as well, your samples look often a bit underexposed to me which will look terrible with skin, better expose to the right. And please, stay away from the kind of post processing and manipulation I often see here with portraits and (plastic) skin, it would spoil everything imho.</p>