piezography MPS on epson printer

[osamu]

<p>does anyone use piezography MPS on your epson printer? i am wondering how good this is. i use epson 3800 and i am quite happy with color printing. when i first bought the printer, i printed b&w and i was ok with it (cannot compare with silver gelatin). then, recently, i printed b&w and i found it to be muddy. i was disappointed with the result since i still have the early b&w print (from the same printer) on the wall. i have been told by different sources that i should have a dedicated b&w printer for satisfactory results. maybe with the set of b&w inks?</p>

[jtk]

<p>No. In my possession are around 200 inkjet prints, mostly by people who are highly darkroom-skilled. They easily rival silver gelatin (as did the lithography in Weston's and Adam's best books..Adams was digitally dedicated long before inkjet). The issue has entirely to do with skills, combined with driver and paper selection. In general the answer has to do with ABW setting in 3800 etc and with baryta paper, which didn't work well with prior printers.</p>

<p>With the 2200/4000 era printers the best of us (not me!) could rival air-dried glossy silver gelatin if they used "glop" and dedicated insets, but that led to printer failure. It's not necessary with 2400/3800 et al.</p>

<p> </p>

[osamu]

<p>john, thanks for your response. by 'No', i take you don't use piezography MPS.<br>

i can tell you that i am not highly skilled in darkroom (digital or chemical) and i realize the skills can do wonders even in digital print. so, you are saying that the printer technology is now good enough, in the level of 3800, that all we need is skills? when you say ' In general the answer has to do with ABW setting in 3800 etc and with baryta paper', you are talking about the right selection of paper with its ICC profiling? so, you are saying that the right mix of grey goes with its appropriately refined paper. that is not much different from the chemical darkroom, or digital color printing. i was never highly skilled but i could produce better results on fiber paper than rc paper in chemical darkroom. <br>

let's get down to low level skill b&w printing. how do you eliminate the muddying of the printer when color and b&w are mixed? i am reading/hearing that some of the skilled b&w digital printers are using dedicated b&w printers. so, what does a dedicated b&w printer look like - what kind of printer setup? is this what you mean by "glop" and dedicated insets? i don't understand "glop" and i don't know what you mean by dedicated insets. is 'insets' a set of ink cartridges?<br>

if you know a good b&w printer setup, i would like to learn. when i was researching, i found this piezography MPS. i could use a good guidance on b&w printer setup.<br>

--osamu</p>

 

[alan_goldhammer]

<p>Osamu - see Eric Chan's <a href="http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/index.html">website</a> on the 3800 printer and his workflow there will help you achieve better results. He also has a lot of profiles specifically for the Epson ABW print driver. To get really good B&W results you need to use this feature. It uses very little color ink during the printing process. You might also want to get a good book on how to process your images so that they are in the best shape prior to printing. I have found that Leslie Alsheimer and Bryan O'Neil Hughes, "Black and White in Photoshop CS4 and Photoshop Lightroom" covering all aspects of black and white transformation using the two key Adobe software products is particularly good in this regard.</p>

[patricklavoie]

<p><em><strong>i printed b&w and i was ok with it (cannot compare with silver gelatin). then, recently, i printed b&w and i found it to be muddy.</strong></em></p>

<p>just learn to correctly print.. i know it sound crude, but it is what it is.. this printer is use by many fine art printer for a reason. It can compete even surpass a gelatin print in many ways. You are just not using it correctly. see eric chan web site, or here on photo net, a tutorial i wrote and repost evry 6month or so ; )</p>

<p><em><strong>i have been told by different sources that i should have a dedicated b&w printer for satisfactory results. maybe with the set of b&w inks?</strong></em></p>

<p>different source not well informed, i suggest you start talking to them rapidly ; ) . since the epson 2400, you are more than perfect to get what you want with those printer. I have seen, do and compare print from piezo vs epson 2400, 3800, 4800 and up model and did see much of a difference between the 2.. not enough to have such a beautifull printer turn as a bw ink only type.</p>

[patricklavoie]

<p><em><strong>With the 2200/4000 era printers the best of us (not me!) could rival air-dried glossy silver gelatin if they used "glop" and dedicated insets, but that led to printer failure. It's not necessary with 2400/3800 et al.</strong></em></p>

<p>a simple use of a RIP, like QTR will fix that problem without the need of a black ink only setup... so even you can get beatifull John ; p</p>

<p>___</p>

<p>Heres some book to help you in your bw aventure</p>

<p>1_ Real World Color Management by Bruce Fraser, Chris Murphy, and Fred Bunting<br /><br />2_Color Management for Photographers: Hands on Techniques for Photoshop Users by Andrew Rodney<br /><br />3_Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS3 by Bruce Fraser and Jeff Schewe<br /><br />4_Adobe Photoshop CS3 for Photographers: A Professional Image Editor's Guide to the Creative use of Photoshop for the Macintosh and PC by Martin Evening<br /><br />5_Real World Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop CS2 by Bruce Fraser<br /><br />6_The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Book: The Complete Guide for Photographers by Martin Evening<br /><br />7_Black and White in Photoshop CS3 and Photoshop Lightroom: Create stunning monochromatic images in Photoshop CS3, Photoshop Lightroom, and beyond by Leslie Alsheimer<br /><br />I think you have to understand the very basic of color management first, since it will help you get better image and better understanding about color and the importance about calibration and profile.<br /><br />Then learning how to develop your raw with photoshop or lightroom, indeed will be a good start. Then by learning the how to work in Photoshop (level, curve, mask, adjustment layer, those basic stuff first are important) Following by how to use a digital asset management software or sort of (Lr) to keep everything organise but also it could be use as the main piece of your workflow by also developing your RAW and create almost anything you need as for global adjustment (for now you still need Ps or Element for local adjustment).<br /><br />Then getting a book on how to produce BW image after you get the concept of calibration, raw development and basic Ps & / or Lr make total sense : )</p>

[osamu]

<p>thanks very much for all of your guidance. i look into getting some of those books and learn. i will start with eric chan's website. <br>

i use cs3 and i take all digital in raw. but, now, i started shooting films again in b&w (scanned), i want that b&w print! i will read up!<br>

--osamu</p>