medium format or new zeiss lens

[herb_smith1]

<p>Hi <br>

I have been using 35mm and digital for some time now but would like to switch to medium format.<br>

I have found some good used mamiya kits.<br>

My first question is it better to go with the 645 afd or a 711rangefinder?<br>

Not that this deals with mF, but I have been wanting a zees lens for some time now and would it be better to get a zees lens or stat with MF, any advise would be great.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p> </p>

[andylynn]

<p>The 7/7ii shoot a larger format, and they're rangefinders, and cost more. If you like rangefinders and you want large prints, the 7 could be a good choice. The 645AFD is pretty easy to use, good as a step up from 35mm SLRs and you get more automation.</p>

<p>If Zeiss glass is what you want, and you can go with less automation, there's nothing better than a Hasselblad with a Zeiss lens. A simple 500-series kit with an 80mm lens can be bought used for reasonable prices.</p>

<p>What do you have now? A 35mm SLR that can take Zeiss glass? What lenses are you currently using? If it's, say, a Nikon with Nikkor primes or pro grade zooms, Zeiss glass for that can give you some advantages but as an upgrade from other good lens brands it's not nearly as much of an upgrade as going to medium format.</p>

[john_a5]

<p>I am not one who is crazy about the 645AFD and think it might be the dog of the line--I have early ones--and have had RB/RZ and still have a 330 and 7--which is a fine camera-as are the others.</p>

<p>After having the 645AF for awhile and never being confident in it, I went with both V and H system cameras, with the H being maybe the best MF camera I have ever had in my hands.</p>

<p>That said, unless you really want to shoot film, I think the dSLR and great glass, like the Zeiss, is not a bad road--it is just a totally different one. I don't see them as comparable or alternatives to one another. </p>

[d_purdy]

<p>Get a Rolleiflex or a Hasselblad with a Zeiss lens. MF and Zeiss. none better</p>

 

[werner1]

<p>Herb, I own an AFD and a Fuji 645zi range-finder. It really depends what you want to use it for. If you travel a lot and want super compact then the range-finders are great. The 7 has probably the best lenses in medium format and will give stunning results. But, nothing is free-you cannot see what the lenses see, polarizers are a pain to use, etc. For me I got a better 'HIT' rate with the AFD than with the range finder. <br>

The irony here is I am going to sell my AFD to get a full frame SONY. I am hoping the full frame will be close enough to the afd in quality to substitute it and use all those Minolta lenses I own. I also have an RZ67 which I would never sell as I love the rythym of using it and the quality of 6x7. Soooo, to make things even tougher-are you using full format? If so the quality jump may not be as distinctive in 645 unless you do large blowups and have a Pro preprocessor nearby that does decent scans of your negs. The results of 6x7 are more noticeable, in my opinion (subjective). <br>

The AFD, on the other hand has the ability of digital backs. Used ones may be more affordable in the future. I have decided that I could not justify one, so I simply do not enter this into my equation. Hope I have confused you even more. -Join the Club-</p>

[werner1]

<p>Sorry about the double Post!</p>

[philip_wilson]

<p>If you are looking for more quality then a larger MF camera is the way to go - for example Mamiya RB or RZ. I find that a film scanned on my Nikon 9000 from my Mamiya Pro 645 is about the same quality as my Canon 5DII with L series glass. A large scanned film image (in my case Fuji 6x8) is considerable better than my 5DII. I find that the current Zeiss lenses have little to offer that you cannot find in a good quality (e.g. Canon L series) lens.<br>

Werner based on my Canon full frame bodies you will not suffer much resolution difference going to a Sony 900 or similar. The M 645 system is slightly sharper but I think this is due to the lenses rather than the image size.</p>

[herb_smith1]

<p>My current setup is a canon 1v with a 135 2.0 L and a 50 1.4 <br>

I aslo have the 7d. For the last few years though it has been nothing but digital with me and due to a few reasons I’m looking to shoot more with slides. I was just gonna upgrade to a new lens (would like something on the wider side) but then started to think of using MF instead of 35. <br>

I shoot mostly the paintings I paint and the reference I use to paint them. So I want high quality but at the same time I’m not gonna need the most high end setup.<br>

I also shoot a fair amount of street photography.<br>

So I guess to the heart of the issue the most sound choice would it be<br>

stay with my current set up and invest in a new lens<br>

get into MF<br>

or just get a scanner so I can stop having others make my slides digital and do it myself? lol:-)</p>

[herb_smith1]

<p>My current setup is a canon 1v with a 135 2.0 L and a 50 1.4 <br>

I aslo have the 7d. For the last few years though it has been nothing but digital with me and due to a few reasons I’m looking to shoot more with slides. I was just gonna upgrade to a new lens (would like something on the wider side) but then started to think of using MF instead of 35. <br>

I shoot mostly the paintings I paint and the reference I use to paint them. So I want high quality but at the same time I’m not gonna need the most high end setup.<br>

I also shoot a fair amount of street photography.<br>

So I guess to the heart of the issue the most sound choice would it be<br>

stay with my current set up and invest in a new lens<br>

get into MF<br>

or just get a scanner so I can stop having others make my slides digital and do it myself? lol:-)</p>

[andylynn]

Well, your 1v is a pretty kickass 35mm SLR and you have good lenses for it. I don't see putting Zeiss glass on it as being a huge upgrade, since it sounds like the kind of shooting you're going to use it for would be tripod work and you could just stop your Canon glass down to the sweet spot and get as much sharpness as you could ask for. Studio/tripod work is where are RB/RZ system stands out, so that's definitely something to consider. Look into the Hasselblads as well, if you get one with Zeiss glass that's both birds killed with one European made stone. These larger formats would give you more detail than a 645.

 

I wouldn't necessarily go to the 645AFD, since 645 is the smallest common format for 120 film, it doesn't sound like AF is going to be so important, and there are better options out there if you did want 645 and AF (e.g. Pentax, or Contax 645, which also uses Zeiss glass).

[werner1]

<p>Unfortunately Herb, you are trying to do two COMPLETELY different things. For street photography the Mamiya 7 would be great! Small, light, unobtrusive, and great resolution. For reproduction work I would NEVER use anything but an SLR. I would want to see EXACTLY where I am focusing. In this case a 645 would do both for you. It would still give you better reproductions than you could get with an APS-C sensor. The portraits taken with my AFD have way more information when it comes to subtle transitions in colour. Skin tones just look more real. The difference from 35mm film to 645 is far greater than the difference from 645 to 6x7. <br /> Personally, I would look into a Mamiya RB and a 110, 127, or 140 macro lense. Just use it for your artwork. They are real cheap right now and The 6x7 would give you stunning repros of your artwork.<br /> Remember, if you want great scans, find a pro lab that caters to a lot of wedding work. The scans you do at home just will not do your negs or your artwork justice.<br /> I don`t know what type of art you are talking about, but it seems to me if you spend a lot of time capturing detail or subtle transitions, it is a shame if you can`t show that in your pictures. <br /> I recommend the RB-RZ, because of the HUGE focusing screens, and the bellows focusing which allows you to get much closer to your subject. These are the cameras I am used to. But almost any medium format will give similar results.</p>

[aplumpton]

<p>A more modern LTM wide angle lens for your Canon IV like a Voigtlander Cosina 28mm f2 or the 35mm f2.5 Classic will provide some performance enhancement with slides, compared to your older lenses, and not cost you very much, but it depends a lot on what size of print you want to make (for reference purposes, I assume you will be just posting jpegs of your paintings). It doesn't sound like you need highest possible quality with film, such as MF or larger sizes would allow.</p>

<p>On the MF side, both Mamiya 6 or 7 lenses and Zeiss lenses yield highest possible quality, and contrary to 35mm you can get reasonable scans using a good flatbed scanner. The 6 is less expensive used than the 7 or 7-II, great also for street photography (an SLR is painful in that task) and I like the square format of 6x6 and the normal lens (75mm) takes a close up attachment if you need to get in close to small paintings. Setting the RF camera on a tripod and copying paintings is not the easiest (it requires more care than an SLR) but quite doable.The wide angle 50mm and body, both in mint condition (anything less may represents more of a risk), will likely set you back $800 + $600, a lot more than going to a modern wide angle lens for your Canon IV. But if you need the resolution and quality, the MF is best of course.</p>

<p> </p>

[robert lee]

<blockquote>

<p>I shoot mostly the paintings I paint and the reference I use to paint them. ... I also shoot a fair amount of street photography.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Use the 7D for recording the paintings. A good lighting kit, stands, and such probably has the best utility. If you really do want another lens (and I understand Gear Acquisition Syndrome as well as anyone) then one of the Canon macros would do well. The flatter field makes for less corrections in post. Which focal length to get depends on how much working distance you've got.</p>

<p>Learn how to use some of the open source stitching software packages. Stitch together multiple frames for the occasion that you need more resolution than the 7D can offers in one shot.</p>

<p>The Mamiya 7 is the best of the class. However, it's not necessarily the best platform for street photography: the DOF is shallow, the lenses are slow, and having just 10 available frames before reload is a bother. If you really want to use film and want a rangefinder, take a look at the Voiglander R2A/R3A cameras. For a new camera purchase, the Zeiss Ikon is very, very nice.</p>

<p>I use a second hand Contax G1 myself. The AF isn't very good, but it turns out that the camera is easy enough to focus by feel. See something interesting: estimate distance by eye, thumb the focus wheel, camera up to frame, shutter button down. That, and of course, the 45mm f2 Planar lens makes up for almost everything.</p>

[mwmcbroom]

<p>Hey Herb, based on your equipment and what you use it for, my suggestions would be way different. Of course, by posting in a medium format forum, you're going to get advice on various MF platforms. But honestly, I don't think you need to go with MF unless you just really want to.</p>

<p>There's a good reason why MF gear is so cheap nowadays and it is because most pros have sold off their MF gear and gone with digital. I had a chance to chat with the photographer who was doing my daughter's wedding this past summer, and he was shooting with a Canon 5D and a 7D and L-series zooms. He used to shoot MF but switched to digital for several reasons. I asked him specifically about the 7D because of its smaller sensor size, and he said it wasn't a problem and that it had plenty of resolution for his needs. We discussed how MF is just not really necessary for wedding work the way it used to be. Weddings have never really been my "thing," but years ago, I worked as an assistant/2nd photographer to a very well-known wedding photographer and back in those days he shot Hassy and Bronica. Nowadays he's a successful author and illustrator, but I'll wager if he were still shooting weddings, he'd most likely be shooting Canon or Nikon.</p>

<p>So, my advice is for you to pick up a high-quality EF-S zoom for your 7D that will cover the wide angle needs you may have -- say 16mm or 17mm on the wide end. Either your 7D or 1V should work fine for your copy needs, same for the photos of your subjects, unless you need to produce very high resolution copies.</p>

<p>As for street photography, I'd recommend something small and unobtrusive that has the capability of dialing in a hyperfocal setting on the lens so you can literally "shoot from the hip." A large mf outfit or even a DSLR might be a bit too much for this if you prefer to be flying under the radar when taking your pics. My preferred device for this sort of photography is an old Canon rangefinder with 50mm f/1.8 Serenar, loaded with Tri-X. The old QL-17 GIII works well for this sort of thing, too. I've also used my daughter's Canon A1000IS digicam (10.1mp) for this, and it too works well.</p>

<p>But if you're just getting this burning itch to shoot MF -- and I know the feeling, cuz I caught it last year and wasn't satisfied 'til I bought a Yashica Mat 124 and a Bronica ETRSi outfit -- then now is a great time to take advantage of the many deals available. My limited funds determined my choice of gear, but if they wouldn't have been quite so limited, I'd have gone for a Mamiya RB67 or a Hassy 500-series, or maybe even a Bronica SQAi. All are great photographic tools, and all will do what you want.</p>

<p>When it comes to scanners, though, that's an entirely different can of worms. Do the research before you buy anything. I recommend you google "hybridphoto" and read through the forum on scanning and scanners at their website before you spend any money on a scanner.</p>

 

[colin_elliott]

<p>Werner, Now that Sony have discontinued both full frame camera bodies (900/850) do you really want to buy into a system that they have made no announcements to replace?</p>

[werner1]

<p>Collin, they are both listed as current on the Canadian site. I don't think they will stop producing since they are still announcing new full frame lenses. Just not as prolific as the other two. </p>

[andylynn]

The A850 and A900 are not discontinued. They're available from the usual sources, and they've had a firmware upgrade in the last month.

[f_ph1]

<p>S. Purdy said it best. Hard to beat a Blad or Rollei. But that is only if you are concerned with technical image quality.<br /> The camera you use is a personal decision; nobody here should make it for you.<br /> I use both a Blad and Rollei tlr for portraiture, landscape and street shooting. My Blad has a meter, my Rollei does not. I often don't bother with light meters.<br>

A zeiss lens on a 35mm style digital camera... is to me something like the Rolls Royce grills that some people put on VW Beetles. If you really want to put those excellent lenses to their best use, and that seems to be your concern, then just think about getting something cheap to experiment with, such as a Yashica T4.<br>

For street shooting, I find the Rollei allows me to be more discreet, but I prefer the handling of the Blad in most situations. Tri X pushed a stop or two diminishes the mirror slap factor, and the negative is so large (and the lenses so phenomenal) that it compensates substantially for whatever grain results.<br /> I don't care so much for rangefinders, finding it much easier to point, focus, and shoot with an slr or tlr.<br /> But that is what works best for <strong>me</strong>. Only through experience will you find what works best for <strong>you</strong>.</p>

[colin_elliott]

<p>Werner and Andrew,<br>

Yes, they are available (I'm in Canada also). But as in "existing stock". They do not appear in the latest Sony catalogue.<br>

When visiting 2 different Sony Style Stores, who consulted their computers, I was informed that the models are, quote ,"No longer in production but available while we still have them in our warehouse." They further informed me that there was at this stage, no information as to any replacements. i.e. Full Frame dslrs.</p>

[Kat D.]

<p>Personally, I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time scanning images of artwork. I think your 7D is perfect for that purpose. I assume you just need documentation and something to submit to galleries, for proposals, etc.</p>

<p>Use film for your street photography. </p>

<p>I have Canon 5D, Hassies, Contax 645, various 35mm film cameras. All for their respective purposes. </p>