Please Help with Lens, Canon EF 85mm f1.8 vs 50mm f1.4?

[marc_v1]

<p>Hi, I bought my Canon EOS 40D with the kit lens 28-135mm two years ago and have used it sparingly. Almost all the pictures were taken on "Auto Mode" and wasn't really too happy with the results.<br>

<br /> Now after reading the forum, I understand why and it's because I didn't have the right gear. <br /> I was wondering if you can provide some input on my research, as I am planning to buy these items soon. (A xmas present to myself).<br>

<br /> <strong>My wish list:</strong></p>

<ul>

<li>Canon Speedlite 430EX II Flash (2nd place is Canon Speedlite 580EX II Flash) $257 vs $415</li>

<li>Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM (2nd place is Canon EF 50mm f1.4 USM) $376 vs $360</li>

<li>Vivitar Wireless Remote Shutter Release for Canon EOS 40D $38.49</li>

</ul>

<p><strong>My most-common scenarios:</strong><br />I like to see pictures of head or torso with a great bokey (I'm one of those that really like the blurred background), but at the same time like to take group photos (in weddings, or outdoors such as a beach or theme park). What I would like is not change lens when I'm in a wedding or with friends (as I think it ruins the atmosphere and the candid shots)…so a great "every day" lens that can do the above.<br /> <strong>My Question:</strong><br />So I'm contemplating on the 50mm f1.4 vs 85mm f1.8. I think the 85mm f1.8 may be more versatile, but I'm worried about not getting the better bokey as that of an 50mm f1.4. Regarding the flash, I thought 430EX would be better because of my budget. Your thoughts? Or any other lens that might fit my scenario above?</p>

[Mattman944]

<p>With a crop camera like the 40D, I recommend the 50 f1.4. The 85 will probably have too narrow a field of view for what you want to do. As a test, your existing lens has both these focal lengths, set it at each and see what the field of view is like. BTW, it is "bokeh".</p>

[paddler4]

<p>I agree with Matthew's last sentence. The principal issue is getting the better focal length, and you can test out with your current lens which is better for you. Re bokeh and background blur: this is a function of many things, not just the lens. For example, the DOF, which you control with aperture, and the distance to the background. Apart from other properties of the lens, with a distant background (like outdoors), you will get more background blur (not a function of DOF) with a longer lens.</p>

<p>If your goals is minimizing lens changes, I think you might want to think longer about zooms before you go with primes. I do a modest amount of indoor event shooting informally in homes with a 50D, and I doubt any one prime will do all of what you want. 85mm on a 40D is long for group shots in small settings. 50mm is short for tight head shots unless you are very close. I generally use a 28-75 for these events, which is sometimes too long even at the short end for some group shots. I once nearly fell into a fireplace backing up for a group shot. If I want tight head shots, I carry a 70-200. If you are in larger spaces, adjust the lengths accordingly. Of course, zooms are slower, which means more use of flash and loss of really shallow DOF, but for candid work, I have trouble going below f/4.5 anyway. It's all about tradeoffs.</p>

<p>You wrote:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Now after reading the forum, I understand why and it's because I didn't have the right gear.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I think that is the wrong message to be taking from postings here. The disappointment beginners feel with their results is almost always a result of not having yet practiced and learned enough, not equipment. for example, I do lots of macro, and it's sobering that many of the shots I see online that are much better than mine were taken with consumer level cameras. I just hung 4 shots in an exhibit, and one of the two that got the most positive response was one I took with my first DSLR, an XTi. One of the few images I have produced in recent months that has generated any real buzz was taken with my cheapest lens, a 17-85 kit lens that I have been itching to replace because it is so much lower in quality than my others. This is not to downplay the quality difference in equipment, especially lenses, but for most beginners, the surest way to being more satisfied is a lot of study and practice.</p>

<p> </p>

[jim_j2]

<blockquote>

<p><em>Now after reading the forum, I understand why and it's because I didn't have the right gear.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p><em> </em><br />Not necessarily so, the 28-135 can probably produce acceptable images with a bit of experimentation and decision making on your part instead of the Camera's while on "Auto Mode." Although the f/3.5-5.6 apertures will make indoor/low light shots more of a challenge.<br />Either one of the Flashes you mention will help tremendously, and far exceed the onboard flash, but you'll have a bit of a learning curve outside the Auto Mode for awhile too.<br />I have an older 420EX flash and long for the 580EX II, but the 420EX continues to "fill the need."</p>

<p>The Remote Shutter Release will be useless unless you have a tripod, so put those dollars toward a tripod.</p>

<p>As Matthew indicated, with your existing 28-135, zoom it to 50mm and also to 85mm and decide which focal length seems to be the one you prefer for the type of shots most common for you.<br />However, on the 40D (crop/small sensor) most find that wider field of view, or wide angle is more desirable for the group photos that you indicate. If that becomes the case, then I would recommend you consider something in the 17-50mm range and would suggest the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8.<br />Although the EF 50mm f/1.4 is a great lens, the EF 50mm f/1.8 for a third of the price will probably give you the low light capabilities and acceptable bokeh in most circumstances.<br />The EF 85mm f/1.8 has a reputation to be a great "Head shot" type portrait lens.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>What I would like is not change lens when I'm in a wedding or with friends (as I think it ruins the atmosphere and the candid shots)…so a great "every day" lens that can do the above.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p><em></em><br />That will be a hard bill to fill with any of these lenses over the 85-135 that you already have! And, part of having an SLR type camera body is the "flexibility of being capable of changing lenses" to get the desired effect.<br /><br />IMHO, I think something in the 17-50mm focal length is more what you are after as a "general carry around" lense.</p>

[William Michael]

<blockquote>

<p>"to take <strong><em>group photos</em></strong> (in <strong><em>weddings, or outdoors such as a beach or theme park</em></strong>). What I would like is <strong><em>not change lens when I'm in a wedding or with friends</em></strong> (as I think it ruins the atmosphere and the candid shots)…so a great "<strong><em>every day</em></strong>" lens that can do the above.”</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Neither the 50/1.4 nor the 85/1.8 will be a suitable lens for all the situations you have outlined.<br>

<br />If you want a <strong>Prime Lens</strong> to better suit these purposes, then you need to be thinking something like a 35/2 or 28/1.8 or 24 /2.8 or the 35L or 24L.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>“my Canon EOS 40D with the kit lens 28-135mm . . . wasn't really too happy with the results. . . .I understand why and it's because I didn't have the right gear. . . . I like to see pictures of head or torso with a great bokey.”</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I believe you have been totally misinformed regarding this.<br>

Working Example;</p>

<ol>

<li>Take your subject outside and select a background of tree or bushes or buildings which are 30ft away from the Subject.</li>

<li>Establish a shooting Distance of about 12 ft</li>

<li>Select FL = 100mm</li>

<li>Select F/6.3</li>

<li>Use Vertical Format framing</li>

<li>Focus on nose.</li>

<li>Shoot</li>

<li>Look at Bokeh. </li>

</ol>

<p>WW<br /><br /></p>

 

[colm boran]

<p>It's probably <em>not</em> the equipment you're using that's causing your dissatisfaction with your images, it's more than likely the lighting and maybe some composition issues. Try shooting photos of someone standing close to a window that is letting in daylight, but not direct sunlight (e.g., a north-facing window). Use a tripod, no flash. Put the focal length around 70-85mm, shoot wide open or stopped down a little bit (you may need to crank up the ISO to 400 or 800 to get a fast enough shutter speed to avoid blurriness due to your subject moving).</p>

<p>If those results look better to you, buy a copy of Light, Science & Magic from Amazon for XMAS and learn more about how the quality of light is the single most important thing you can do to improve your images: Stop using the on-camera flash indoors, instead opting for ambient light with higher ISO. Do use the on-camera flash outdoors, on sunny days, as a fill flash. Stop shooting landscapes between 10 AM and 4 PM on sunny days when the sun is directly overhead, etc.</p><div></div>

[mark_pierlot]

<p>Marc, as others have said, no single prime lens is going to cover all your intended applications, from headshots to group photos. For your 40D, you'll need a zoom such as the EF-S 17-55/2.8 for this.</p>

<p>Having said that, both the EF 50/1.4 and 85/1.8 will give you very good bokeh. The 50/1.2 L, 85/1.2 L and 135/2 L are even better in this regard, but are much more costly.</p>

[daniel flather]

<p>I have the 50/1.4, 50/1.2, and the 85/1.8. The <em>bokey</em> on the 50/1.4 is so-so. The 85 and 50L's <em>bokey</em> are much better.</p>

<p>The 85 <strong>might</strong> be too long for group shots. For single person shots the 85 is awesome wide open and it's <em>bokey</em> is stellar. The <strong>ultimate</strong> <em>bokey</em> lens is the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thumbs_up_for_bokeh.JPG">200/</a><strong><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thumbs_up_for_bokeh.JPG">2.0L</a>.</strong></p>