Kodak 5L E6 Kit Discontinued

[rob_landry]

<p>Don't know if this has been posted before but just as a heads up to those who process E6 at home using the single-use kit, it's been discontinued. It's still listed on Kodak's site (big surprise) but shows as discontinued/out of stock on B&H, Adorama, Calumet etc.<br>

To find out for certain, I emailed Kodak directly and they confirmed that they're done. Here's the email I received from them:</p>

<p>Dear Rob,<br /> <br /> Yes, the Kodak Professional Ektachrome E-6 5 Liter Kit was discontinued and is no longer available from us. You might check with the various dealers to see if they have any remaining inventory. Alternatively, we do continue to offer the E-6 chemicals in sizes to make 10-liters, but not in kits. I have taken the liberty of attaching a document that will show you how to mix smaller sizes from these chemicals.<br /> <br /> Please let us know if you have future questions on these or other of our Kodak Professional products.<br /> <br /> Sincerely,<br /> <br /> Peter<br /> Kodak Professional<br /> Technical Support</p>

[barry_sanford]

<p>Hi Rob, this is a bummer. I've checked my usual sources--all sold out!! So now I'm left with having to buy the 10L quantities and mix in smaller batches. This will require a new chem management protocol as my storage tanks are all 5L--more handling, more aggravation. Can you post his attached mixing document or forward me a copy via email?</p>

[ian_mazursky]

<p>Huge bummer here too. I used to mix from the E6AR cubes but hated using starters, not to mention the storage and handling of such a large amount of chemistry.<br />An issue when using starters is that you are mixing such a small amount that i find it hard to get totally accurate measurements when using standard plastic beakers.<br /><br />Here is the link to <a href="http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/cis49/cis49.pdf">Kodak CIS49</a> Preparing Smaller-Than-Package-Size Amounts of KODAK Processing Chemicals.<br />The document is a little hard to follow, from what i remember and read you need to create the replenisher before the tank solutions.<br />Huge pain especially when you only need 1L for my Jobo ATL 2200. I only mix as needed and its sad that the kits are gone, they really made processing E6 in a Jobo easy. </p>

[barry_sanford]

<p>Thanks, Ian, for the info. I've managed to locate a couple of kits in the meantime, but the supply seems pretty much exhausted :(</p>

[rob_landry]

<p>It most certainly is a bummer.</p>

<p>Ian, do you happen to know if starters are a requirement for the 10L sized chems? Some of the guys over at APUG are thinking that you can get away without using them but it doesn't seem to be the case.</p>

[ian_mazursky]

<p>As far as i know starters are required for consistency. They help to emulate a seasoned tank solution and reduce variations from run to run.<br />Im sure you can use the solutions without them but they probably wont plot correctly.<br />You do need them for the 10L and AR cubes to make a working tank solution. <br />I would rather buy the starters and use them then risk any film in an uncontrolled process.<br />Besides they are inexpensive and last a long time.<br />Once i run through the kits, i will probably go back to the AR cubes or at worst the 10L (both with starters). What a pain but i guess it is what it is.</p>

[rob_landry]

<p>Thanks for clarifying Ian</p>

[ian_mazursky]

<p>No problem. One thing i forgot to mention is that in the kits you do not need to aerate the bleach.<br />When you mix from the individual components, you must aerate the bleach to make it more active.<br />I spoke with Kodak (very helpful guys) and they said that a half full container with bleach shaken should take care of it.<br />Also if you are using a rotary tube processor, i remembered that you have to dilute the reversal bath 60% or the slides may come out green.<br />Kodak is going to update the CIS49 document with new information on how to mix 1L from the concentrates without going through the replenisher-working tank rigamarole.<br />As the instructions stand, you would need to make 1L of replenisher and then 1L of working tank.<br />I will try to keep you updated as i make the transition to the new chemistry. </p>

[ian_mazursky]

<p>If anyone is interested, Kodak sent me the correct mixing instructions to break down the 10 Liter and E6AR cubes down to 1 liter tank solutions.<br />You can send me an email and i will forward the docs to you.</p>

[tom_johnston4]

<p>I know that the discontinuation of the 5L kit has caused me a real dilemma for me. It's appararent that it is has been a problem for many other photographers as well. I suggest that everyone reading this write to Kodak and urge them to bring the kit back. I have seen demand cause a product to be brought back before. Also, Kodak still produces E6 chemistry so it's really more of a packaging issue.</p>

[ian_mazursky]

<p>Hi Tom,<br />Its not just a packaging issue for Kodak, the 5L kits are a different formulation.<br />The starters for the FD, CD and BL are combined in solution and all of them are super saturated.<br />I have found that the individual components or in my case the E6AR cubes are better then the 5L kit.<br />My highlights a a little cleaner and the Dmax is more easily controlled. Since i switched to the AR cubes i cant see a reason to go back to the kits. I still have a number of the kits hanging around that i wont use now.<br /><br />The trade off is a few extra minutes in mixing time and you do need to be accurate in measuring for the starters.<br />I bought a variable pipette off of ebay like the ones used in chem labs. Its been invaluable for repeatability.<br /><br />One thing to note, the Kodak manuals do not have the correct mixing instructions to create a working tank solution directly from the concentrates.<br />I have created an excel file with help from Kodak with the correct mixing procedures for 500ml up to 5L from individual components and the AR cubes.<br />I have posted it on my <a href="http://www.prepressexpress.com/pages/aboutus/downloads.html">site</a> under the photography tab.<br />Hope that helps. </p>

[ken_dunn1]

<p>So has anyone found a solution yet? I have a Jobo processor (ATL1500) and on my last box of chemistry. I know Freestyle has the 3 step kit, but I don't know if I trust those and its much more expensive. </p>

[ian_mazursky]

<p>Hi Ken,<br />The best solution is the Kodak E6AR 5 gallon cubes or the 10L individual components.<br />Once i switched from the kits to the AR cubes i found that my Dmax is better and my highlights are cleaner.<br />The process is easier to control and the cost per liter went down, especially when replenishing the bleach.<br />After a year or so of mixing from the cubes i have found ts faster then mixing from the kits.<br />Either the cubes or the individual components are a worthwhile investment.<br /><br />I would seriously stay away from the 3 step kits. I have seen what i think is poor bleaching from them.<br />They're cramming a lot of chemistry into 3 steps and the long term results are questionable in my mind.<br /><br />I have posted an excel doc on my site with the mixing instructions for both the AR cubes and 10L individual components.<br />Link is in my previous post above. Once you get the hang of adding starters, its pretty easy.<br /><br />Hope that helps.</p>

[tom_johnston4]

<p>Hi Ken,<br>

Do you think you could provide a link to the cubes. I can find the individual chemicals but I haven't had any luck finding the cube kits you mention.<br>

<br />Best,<br>

Tom</p>

[tom_johnston4]

<p>I meant to say, "Hi, Ian". :-)</p>

[ken_dunn1]

<p>Ian, thanks for the link. Its great when people go to all that much trouble to help others along. Just a question, how long will the chemicals, starters and replenishers, last once opened? I did a quick once over on the Kodak site but didn't see anything. I don't get out as much lately as I would like and its a while sometimes between runs.</p>

<p>Tom, its OK, you can drop in and say hey anytime!</p>

[ian_mazursky]

<p>Tom,<br />None of the current offerings from Kodak are kits. You have to buy the individual components weather they are the 10L or 5 gallon AR cubes.<br />Both of which basically mix the same, they both need the starters and a reliable and accurate way to measure them.<br />I use either a Serological pipette or a variable pipette.<br /><br />In my excel doc, i have all of the part#s for both the 10L and AR cubes. First try a local lab that buys direct from Kodak.<br />If they’re nice they can order it for you. Next try the Minilab Supply Store.<br />They are Kodak resellers and they should have everything in stock. I know of a few more places to check but i have to see what i did with my list.</p>

<p>Ken,<br>

Glad i could help everyone out. I started writing this over a year ago internally (we process a lot of E6 in our Jobo ATL 2300), it was a lot of fun to write. Im still making updates so check back every few months on my site, i will try to post as i go.<br />Peter at Kodak was extremely helpful with all of the information. He worked with me over the coarse of many months to cull and verify all of the various dilutions and instructions for the E6 and C41 manuals.<br /><br />The Starters and Final Rinse last indefinitely even though they have an expiration date on them.<br />The first developer would be the first to go. In a cube it can last for a few years if there is no air in it.<br />When the cubes are tapped, as the fluid drains the plastic contracts and keeps air out.<br />The 10L are stored in plastic bottle so i would expect a less, they have an expiration date on them but you will know once it turns a very dark orange.<br />It comes as a light yellow, as it oxidizes it turns to orange then dark orange.<br />The color developer is split into 2 components, acid and a base. When you mix the 2 together it changes color to blue then to a pretty purple. Thats how you know you didn’t mix the wrong stuff together, like pyro.<br />As the CD mix oxidizes it turns brown. Once mixed i would expect no more then a week, maybe 2 before you need to dump the tank.<br />The 2 CD components should last a few years in the cube form and a year or more in the 10L.<br /><br />The Reversal Bath, Pre Bleach, Bleach and Fixer have the longest life spans. I would say 3 or more years if kept sealed.<br />The Pre Bleach once mixed will develop biological scum after a few weeks. The bleach can also for some reason. It looks like an orange red goober.<br />If you are replenishing the bleach (which i highly recommend), strain it through a coffee filter before you mix the used bleach with the fresh concentrate to strain out the muck.<br />In my excel doc, i have the instructions and mixing ratios for bleach replenishment. You do however need a glass Hydrometer.<br />They are not terribly expensive and you can find them used. Get a 250ml graduated cylinder and measure the SPG in that.<br>

Bleach can be replenished almost indefinitely. Only once it becomes to dilute do you have to dump it. By replenishing the bleach, you can cut your cost per Liter down significantly.<br />You do however have to aerate the bleach before using it.<br />Bleaching film coverts the metallic silver to silver halide. During the bleach step, the Iron 3 in the bleach is reduced to Iron 2.<br />Aeration converts the Iron 2 to back to an Iron 3. Inadequate aeration, time…can cause a reddish dmax. You can recover that most times by re bleaching in a fresh bleach at 100F and then fix and final rinse.<br /><br />In a rotary tube setup, only replenish the bleach. Everything else is oxidized.<br /><br />The starters are universal as they can be used for both the 10L and AR cubes.<br />You shouldn’t mix and match the rest ie. buy 10L FD and AR bleach. It makes it that much harder to trace down errors.<br />I would download the Kodak Z119 manuals (links in my doc), they’re geared for mini labs and large processors but the #10 Rotary tube is a great starting point for times.<br />Use my manual for mixing as the dilutions that Kodak list are not easy to follow.<br />You would need to create 2 solutions, a replenisher and a tank solution. My manual skips the replenisher solution which isn’t needed if your not replenishing on a large scale.<br /><br />Once you get the hang of mixing which is pretty straightforward, you can do 1L pretty quick.<br />Its only a few more minutes then mixing from the old kits. On the plus side, its so much cheaper per Liter then the kits.</p>