Do I have to compromise - or would I be mad to dump Hassy

[tapas_maiti5]

Hi

 

I think I am at a decision point in my photographic journey and

would like everyones thoughts.

 

I moved into medium format about 5 years ago and for the last 4 have

been a Hassy user. My initial interests were varied: landscapes,

travel and portraits and being quite focused on technical quality I

was happy to use tripods, carry large amounts of equipment etc.

 

Over the last year a few changes seem to have occurred - I have

stopped enjoying landscapes and become much more focused on people

whether that be studio, posed or "snapshot." The addition of a baby

to the family has also focused that direction (+ not being able to

carry as much around or afford as much!)

 

After reviewing my pictures I have noticed a trend that most of my

people/travel has been formal/posed and in a sense that is driven by

equipment; the hassy will not work quickly and the results when you

try and not worth it.

 

A few months ago I bought a Canon D30 (everyone was buying D60s so

they were going relatively cheaply) and I have been pleasantly

surprised - I get results that I could not from 35mm and it has

added a casualness/spontaneity to my photography that I could not

achieve with my hassy. It is noticeable though that the D30 looks

good for pictures where the details are not there/wanted e.g.

portraits.

 

In retrospect I feel that the hassy works fantastically in the

studio or for landscapes but for a lot of what I want to do I have

been "fighting it" because I love the results it gives (and its what

I have!)

 

Now the question - I have invested a lot of money in the hassy

(second hand) and I can't afford to buy a second set of gear so a

few option arise.

 

1. Use the D30 or buy a D60 and just keep what I need of the hassy

for studio and the odd formal - loathed to do this because I don't

want the digital paraphernalia required for travelling especially

when I may be away from an electricity source for 2-3weeks.

 

2. Get a D60 for most things and Mamiya 7 outfit for travel/"art"?

 

3. Get a "do it all" medium format that can manage travel,

spontaneity and studio work - I have looked at the 645s and only the

Pentax 645NII seemed to appeal in terms of utility, cost and

handling (can't afford the Contax; refuse to pay silly money for the

Hassy H1).

 

My preference is to stay medium format with a big enough gap over

digital to justify it (is 645 enough?). My requirements are high

quality prints to 16x12 occasionally to 20x16 though I do like to do

11x11 squares within a 16x12 frame.

 

IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE LOW HASSLE:HIGH QUALITY MEDIUM FORMAT OR AM I

ASKING TO MUCH IN WHICH CASE I SHOULD ACCEPT DIGITAL OR 35MM AS AN

ALTERNATIVE FOR HASSY OUTSIDE THE STUDIO

 

Regards

 

Tapas

[richard harris]

Far from being a medium format expert, but I see two distinct possibilities for you:

 

1) Keep the hassy and complement it with the digital outfit which you have already started to build. You will probably spend most of your time with the easier to handle digital camera but you still have the option of MF if you need it.

 

2) Sell the Hassleblad and replace it with a Mamiya 7: this is smaller, lighter and much more convenient and portable and will equal any MF gear in terms of quality. You would need to get used to rangefinder focusing but this is no big deal. The only potential drawback is that the 7 isn't great for close focusing which means you may be limited for tight portraits. It is a camera you can still use in the studio as well as outdoors.

[peza]

Keep things simple, stay in one system.<br>

If you was so happy with D30, imagine how much you will be happy with 1Ds, and in 645, <a href="http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/1ds/1ds-field.shtml">the gap is WAY too narrow</a> to buy into different or smaller than 6x7 MF at all (I'm afraid).

[charles barcellona www.bl]

Personally, I like SMALL cameras to grab those informal shots, but even at a wedding - shooting a 500cm and 60 Distagon makes for rather quick shooting, even of candids.

[nicholas_lindan]

If you sell it wisely you can allways buy another one back at a later date for about the same as your selling price. This is not an issue to waste much time or angst over....

[ellis_vener_photography]

Right now prices for medium format equipmen are crashing through the floor

and intothe basement. Fotr that reason alone I think you'd be mad to sell your

gear right now.<P>The blad system can work very quickly, that is why it has

been the primary tool of fashion , portrait and wedding photographers for

three decades. I'd examine how you are working with it to findout why the

process seems slow to you.<P>To me our letter reads like you are infatuated

with gear. RE: If you were not getting quality that was was better than the

output ofthe D30 from 35mm equipment, then you have a problem with some

part of your imaging system, probably the lab.

[dermot_conlan3]

As stated already you will loose a ton of money if you sell the Blad right now, the market is way soft . B+H for instance is doing a great promo on the 180mm CFI with a lower price and rebate you can buy it new for around $2000...until the summer it was on sale used for this price at many well known Blad dealers. A16 back gives you 645,(cheaper than a 645 system) it gets short shift here but I've sold as many 645 images as I have 67 over the years. You will be unhappy with M7 if you shoot landscapes and are used to using filters., the used market is flooded with these as most people are not used to rangefinders and probably give up too easily...great deals for M7'ers.

[godfrey]

I started shooting with a digital camera last January. For me, the results I get

with it replace most of what I used to do with small format film ... 35mm and

APS... I found that when I want better quality, I needed to reach for medium

format. So I've added Hasselblad.

 

My kit is now the digicam for most casual work and a Hasselblad for when I

care more ... either a 903SWC or a 500CM + 80mm lens. I'll add a 150mm

lens next year.

 

Traveling with the digicam and the SWC on holiday this past summer returned

me the best of both worlds.

 

Godfrey

[gl5]

The Mamiya 7 is not much less cumbersome as a Hasselblad

and is not as sturdy. The Mamiya lenses are not as fast either. In

terms of quality, I can't really tell much difference but some

would certainly argue that the Zeiss Hassy lenses are superior

and I wouldn't argue with them.

[ted_ylauan]

I would keep the Hasselblad for situations that demand it and just use the D30 if you are happy with it, for your general photography.

 

I have a couple of film 35mm SLRs, a digital SLR, and a Hasselblad along with four lenses. Although I prefer to use the Hasselbad I have been using the digital SLR only because I am currently unemployed. The digital SLR has saved film and processing costs.

 

If I had to unload any of my equipment, I would keep the Hasselblad

[philip_kecher]

When making a decision strictly by financial standards you need to consider only two things, the present value and the future value. The past value should have no bearing on your decision.

 

Thus if you believe that your Hasselblad system is worth $3,000 today and expect it to be worth $2,500 next year then sell it. It doesn't matter that it was worth $4,000 last March.

 

So from a financial point of view, the best time to sell your Hassy is now.

 

So with the financial decision out of the way, you need to focus on use. If you don't plan to use the Hassy much, it is an expensive paperweight that is depreciating every day you wait. SELL IT!

 

However, if you are like me, and still like the quality you get from MF film it is priceless. You would be nuts to sell it.

 

You must decide if you are in group one or two.

[philip_roberts1]

Don't do it - don't dump the hassy. I have wrestled with this

question recently myself, and came to the conclusion I have too

much to loose by getting rid of my good old 500CM.

 

If you plan to part ex for other gear you will end up forking out

loads more money for new(er) gear that frankly, wont give better

pictures. If your family circumstances mean you have less cash I

suggest you dont p/x!

 

Photos are as good as you are a photographer. If you are doing

fine with the digital, great, but its not for every situation. A good

MF camera is useful to have - and a Hassy is a good MF

camera, providing a little regular TLC is applied.

 

M7 or a 645 will leave you in the same trap. If you like your D30

work with it (just remember the D60 is soon to become old hat)

and us the hassy for the 'special occasion'. Quite frankly I

couldn't do a wedding or portrait without one. And a landscape

just cries out for Velvia & Carl Ziess!

[wayne_crider4]

Ok.. from what I gather the the Hassy is good inside but

marginal outside for the spontaneous street and people stuff.

The D30 doesn't have the quality you want for the print size you

need, but it does look good for outside portraits where there is

no detail or it is not wanted. So, you want to stay with a Mf system

that is faster shooting for more spontaneous work and you can't

afford two kits.

 

So my question is, are you planning on selling these street

photo's or are you doing it for fun; Or are you envisioning selling

them. If you are selliing anything it's apparent that it's portrait

stuff, or maybe it's just portraits of the family? You don't seem

like a working pro so I'm going to go on the assumption that your

making little if any money since you can't affford 2 kits.

Personally I'd sell the D30, get a 35mm film camera with good

lenses, and you'll get your print size and it will be fast enough for

ya. Leave the Hassy home unless your doing stills. And forget

another Mf camera sysem untill you can afford it by selling what

you have or trading. At that time there's plenty on the market to

cover your needs. Your other option is to learn how to shoot the

the 6x6 by knowing your light and setting your aperture by

experience. With negative film you should be covered most of the

times. And that's how alot of the old street shooters shot BTW. I

personally shoot a 6x6 Rollei with internal metering thats pretty

fast, and will only set aperture when by my experience it needs to

be changed. I also like looking down at a waist level instead of

pointing a camera at someone for street stuff.

[keith_laban]

Perhaps we in the UK are a little backwards, but I have not noticed any fall in Medium Format prices on this side of the pond.

[fotografz]

It seems to me that a lot of equipment discussions are revolving around

the value or lack of value of equipment these days. Do we buy camera

gear for an investment? If so, someone gave us poor financial advice.

The value is in the use and enjoyment of fine equipment to make

photographs. The Hasselblad has been used to make wonderful images

for just about as long as I've been alive. So, suddenly it can't be used to

do that anymore? IMO, this sweaty palmed equipment frenzy is

ludicrous. The best piece of advice I can think of is to respectfully

suggest that you stop obsessing about what you do and do not have and

learn how to more fully use your Hasselblad.

[philip_kecher]

Marc

 

You are of my thinking, that is why I am keeping mine. However, I was also taught not to hoard possesions. If you wouldn't use it in the next year, get rid of it. Personally, I don't follow this way of thinking but many people do.

 

Keith

 

You haven't noticed any price drop in the UK on Hassy. I haven't noticed any in the US either. In the past, I have bought from Midwest Photo Exchange and from KEH.com. Just now, I checked their sites. Midwest prices are the same as last year. KEH.com seems to be about the same. I noticed they have many lenses that have been reduced in price by 5%. Not a huge difference. BTW, the prices on Leica M is up a bit at KEH.com. Midwest isn't advertising any stock.

 

Those who claim the prices are down are quoting ebay. I distrust ebay. Maybe if the prices are down it is an issue with ebay.

[squareframe]

> but I have not noticed any fall in Medium Format prices on this side of the pond.

 

simply start a rumour on photo.net

 

then chant 'my Hasselblad is junk, I must have something new'

 

before you know it, you'll own a Canon D30. no, I mean a D60. forget that, a EOS-1Ds .. didn't I hear a rumour of a D90 soon?

[philip_kecher]

Oops!

 

After rereading by post it sounds like I don't use my Blad. I want to clarify. My Hassy is used daily on the job. I would be lost without it.

 

One thing that isn't mentioned in this debate is the size of the viewfinder. After using the HUGE viewfinder of the Blad anything else looks small. The right tool for the right job.

 

Again as Marc said, don't obsess about equipment.

[jonathan brewer]

You got the addition of a 'little one to your family', everything including cameras is secondary to that, keep what you got, sell it if you need the extra cash for your 'little one'.

[tapas_maiti5]

Hi Guys

 

Thanks for all the replies. I'll try to respond the best I can.

 

I suppose that I am obsessing about equipment but against a set of specific scenarios:

 

1. The baby is doing something; I want to get a good quality shot: By the time the Blad is out; I've measured the light dug out a handlemount flash because there is not hotshoe - the moment is gone. This can apply when travelling as well for example seeing something happening on the street but I miss the shot; yet when it all comes together the quality is stupendous. MAYBE THIS IS TOO MUCH TO ASK OF MEDIUM FORMAT.

 

2. Use 35mm get the shot; not happy with the quality - I simply prefer digital to 35mm because I can control the whole process and thus get a more pleasing result.

 

So the question applies as to whether I can make MF work faster which would apply just as much to the Blad as to anyother system, My reference to the P645 & M7 was simple because I imagined they would allow faster operation. I enjoy MF quality so my preference is to do everything in MF if I can rather than having muliple systems. If anybody can offer advice on speeding up the blad I would gladly accept that alternative and stay with something that I have and am used to.

 

I am not under financial pressure in the "can't afford" sense but more the "won't afford sense"; I believe that the different MF systems all seem to have equivalent image quality and thus its the ergonomics and price that are important. Also it is not a question of equipment value as an investment but as an amateur any change of equipment is costly and needs justification in terms of utility rather than future cash flows.

 

As I am based in the UK - I have not noticed any drop in the prices of used MF gear in fact possibly the reverse; I do notice a drop in the prices offered by dealers!

 

My decision is that it does seem worth persevering with the Blad as I have a full systems that I am familiar with but look at ways of speeding up operation (any suggestions). I think I can separate the digital side to quick, casual work - I am probably being unrealistic as to what digital can do v MF.

 

Many Thanks

 

Tapas

 

P.S. Against Philip's comment we have a house rule - if its not used for a year it is sold or thrown out never hoard anything but the Blad/MF does not fill that category.

[elgenper]

Tapas, after all the answers you´ve got already, I don´t really know if mine is of any additional help. Since I´ve just gone through the same process as you, I´ll answer anyhow...<br><br>

I´ve been a MF, and mostly Hassy user for more years than I care to remember, and more or less rejected 35 mm. My areas of interest was landscape, nature, cityscapes, and some portraits. Technical quality good, pics mostly static and conventional. Always a backlog of printing getting the best of me...<br><br>

Then, 2 years ago, I saw some results from a "digitalized" friend, and felt there was potential in it. Nothing like MF quality, but a kind of spontaneity and freshness that I liked a lot. So I bought a Nikon CP990 and an Epson 870 (got Photoshop LE with the camera), and soon found out what tremendous level of control I´ve suddenly got, and how soon I could see the results. Only, that camera proved very unintuitive and difficult to control once you´ve left "point-and-shoot" mode. Still, I considered my Blad my "serious" camera.<br><br>

Got an Oly E10 instead of the 990, and suddenly I had a "serious" digicam as well. Used it extensively for a year, and found the Blad was unloaded and dust-covered (well, not REALLY...).<br><br>

A few things still bothered me with the E10: slow, somewhat noisy pics, manual focus useless. And my 870 prints faded away on the walls after a while. I saw that I had to make a choice: back to Blad and silver, or even better digital tools. But now I simply couldn´t give up the control and workflow of digital! When trying, I ended up cursing that "heavy and slow" gear and the dark hours smelling stop-bath in the basement... I was lost already! And i really liked the pics I got when using digital!<br><br>

So (blasphemy, heresy, foolishness &c...) I DID sell that Hassy gear, and bought a D60 and an Epson 2100. And I´ve never looked back, not once! (I did keep my lovely Rolleiflex 2.8E). I love that D60, and I love the pics I get (some of them, at least..). I´m aware of the theoretical superiority of, say the D1s, but I´ve finally reached a point where I can say: "What I´ve got works perfectly for me, and I´ll keep using it, not pining for the latest model..."

[louis_webb]

The Luminous Landscape review of the Canon 1 Ds shows that top end digital is approaching 645/mf quality and the author,in his summary,asks whether his large collection of mf gear will be surplus to requirements in the near future(see page 5 of the review).I would say that lack of an electricity supply at times,would be the only reason I would hold back from adding to the Canon setup you've already started-surely the Canon d30 is good enough for most stuff and in a year or two,when the price of the 1 Ds has come down to a level acceptable for mortals/non-professionals,you could snap one of these up,for great landscapes etc.,whilst already having most/all of the lenses/accesories you need.

[fotografz]

I hope I can add maybe just a little insight to this interesting discussion.

I am totally digital in every respect. A D1x used for color wedding

candids; A Contax ND full frame SLR for certain "art" applications and

as back-up to a Contax 645 "wedding camera" with a Kodak 645C 4X4

ProBack (the 645 lenses fit the ND, so only one set of lenses are

necessary); A Kodak ProBack Plus for use on both my Hasselblad

555ELD and Mamiya RZ Pro II for direct capture to the computer in

commercial studio applications. Digital is a business decision and an

expensive one at that. But a necessary one to compete in today's market.

 

So, why do I still have and shoot film cameras?: a Hasselblad 503 CW

and complete Leica M system for example. Because film "feels

different". I'm not talking about resolution or sharpness. Despite some

naysayers, digital is the equal of, or is superior to film in this

regard...especially when compared to scanned film. It just feels different,

especially when printed conventionally. It is an emotionally based

reaction to the results not a technical one. So, even if the 503CW sits for

a couple of months unused, I still like and use the option and want it

there when the occassion arises. The Leica Ms get used on a fairly

intense basis (almost daily).

 

As far as giving advice to better use a Hasselblad in the situations you

outline, why not leave the camera set up with the flash at the ready?

Is the camera a 501 or 503? The 503 is very fast with the D flash 40

TTL mounted with a diffuser. I use it at weddings, even for candids.

Do you have a meter prism? One quick reading of ambient light is all

that's needed to rough it in and set the flash for fill. Even a regular run of

the mill flash with a PC cord outlet, and set on A is very quick on a 501.

 

One little fast manual focusing trick I learned from a old photojournalist

is to get in the habit of cranking the focus ring back to infinity after every

shot. Most shots then only require a half turn or less to lock focus, and

you turn the focus ring in the same direction every time, so there's no

"hunting back and forth to find were you're at. It takes practice until it

become second nature, but will double or triple your speed. I can focus a

Leica M almost as fast as an AF using this technique.

[philip_kecher]

"I learned from a old photojournalist is to get in the habit of cranking the focus ring back to infinity after every shot."

 

You can teach a old dog, new tricks. Thanks for the advice. I can not believe after all my years of photography, I didn't discover this. Of course you are talking outside the studio. In these cases I always figured it was usually quickest leaving the focus on the last shot because the next shot should be near by. Then you just have to fine tune. However, you do hunt. I will give it a try.

[fino]

Report: Digital photos not bumping film

By David Becker

Special to ZDNet News

October 30, 2002, 5:00 AM PT

URL: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-963850.html

 

Despite rapid growth in sales of digital cameras, consumers are using film as much as ever, according to a report released Tuesday by research company IDC.

 

The company's "2002 Image Bible" estimates that worldwide this year, 78 billion digital images will be captured and shared via cameras, scanners and mobile devices. About 25 billion of those images will be printed.

 

That compares with more than 100 billion images captured on film being printed, a number that has remained stable for several years.

 

IDC analyst Chris Chute said the upshot is that consumers are using digital cameras for immediate gratification and for e-mailing snapshots to grandma. But they turn to film for images they want to preserve on paper. A total of 77 percent of digital camera owners still use film, and more than half use film cameras more often than digital, according to the IDC report.

 

"They each fulfill a need," Chute said. People use digital "because it's easy to share the images...With film, printing is pretty much a killer app in terms of being (widespread), inexpensive and easy to use."

 

Chute said he expects the balance to shift slowly toward digital as camera makers, photofinishers and others come up with systems that make it easier to order and retrieve prints of digital images.

 

"We think that maybe by 2004 or 2005, we're going to see a critical mass of machines that allow the user to get digital prints the same way they do film," he said. "But even then, it's not going to be an overnight thing. Film use is going to be on this very shallow, sloping line over the next 30 or 40 years."

 

Efforts such as CPXe show promise, Chute said, but rival systems may emerge. CPXe is an industry-developed push to create a standard directory and software for ordering digital prints from local photo shops.

 

"I think it's a good promotional effort as far as bringing an awareness to the issue," Chute said of CPXe. "But there could be renegades like Sony who get their own critical mass going. It doesn't really matter to the consumer, as long as it's easy to use and inexpensive."