Canon 580ex II or Canon 430ex II

[erik_sokolowski]

<p>Just picked up a 5D and a new ef-24-70mm f2.8, Its time that I get a flash. Just not sure which one to buy.

I see there is a big price differance in the 580 and 430. What is the reasoning and why would I buy the 580 over the

430? I will be doing some church photography (baptisims etc.) and some weddings (once in a blue moon) I am

mainly going to photograph my new son.</p>

<

p>Please help me understand flahs photography as I am very green in flash photography.</p>

<

p> </p>

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p><br />Thanks<br>

ERIK</p

[Robin Smith]

<p>Erik,</p>

<p>I have the 430EXII and it does everything I want it to do...the only thing I find irritating is that the head does not freely rotate 360 degrees - it is curiously annoying at times, but otherwise it does the trick for me (fill-in, weddings etc), but I am not someone who has a flash permanently on my camera. It is considerably cheaper. The main thing about the 430 is that it cannot be a master (controlling other EX flashes), although it can be a slave. The 580 is more powerful too. So I do find the 430 excellent - but, nevertheless, I do wonder whether I should not have got the bigger one as, if you have to carry a flash, the size difference between them is not so great that it makes a practical difference and, if you have to bounce or diffuse flash, the more power you have the better. Despite these feelings of inadequacy, so far I have not actually <em>needed </em>the more powerful 580. </p>

[adam_gifford]

<p>Buy some low self discharge NIMH batteries to go with the flash. Sanyo eneloop or any of the other "pre-charged" / hybrid nimh cells. (Low self discharge cells stay charged longer when not in use).</p>

<p>I have the 430ex for a t1i and it works well enough for my needs. The big differences are of course that the 430ex is less powerful, and can't act as a master flash (for multiple / off camera flashes).</p>

[erik_sokolowski]

<p>As of right now i have no plans on using off camera flash there for i would not need the controlability. So it would be down to the power of the two flashes. Is there that much of differance that i would notice, being i have never really taken the time to learn flash photography.</p>

<p>Suggestions if you were to buy a new flash. would you just buy the best now? or would you buy the 430 and use it as a slave later, since i would be buying a flash later either way?</p>

[jdebever]

<p>As this will probably be the only flash for a long time, go for the big one.<br>

I've got the older 550, and love it.</p>

[jim_j2]

<p>I have a much older 420EX that does the job o.k., but I wish I had gotten the bigger flash at the time. The 420EX does not have much as far as manual control.</p>

<p>If it were me, . . . and I could swing the 580EX, thats the one I'd get!</p>

[Spearhead]

<p>There are some significant differences. In addition to not being able to rotate sufficiently (I bounce from behind frequently), the 430 lacks an external power source connector, a PC socket, and weather sealing. Having owned both, I find the settings easier on the 580EXii. Regarding power, while I never noticed not having sufficient flash with the 430, I do notice that the 580 allows shooting far sooner after use, especially with the external battery pack.</p>

[robin_sibson1]

<p>If you are using flash for photographing people in anything more sympathetic than a PJ context, blasting them with direct on-camera flash isn't going to do the job, and in a church you may not have much to bounce the flash off. Some sort of off-camera setup will be needed sooner or later, and that's a good reason for getting a flash that can act as a wireless master. Of course, an ST-E2 with a flash (like the 430EXII) that can act as a slave would also be an option.</p>

<p>Have you considered a s/h 550EX? On a FF body it does the job very well, and should be a relatively low-cost option.</p>

[jeffrey_c1]

<p>Erik,</p>

<p>I personally own 4 580ex IIs. I use one flash in the hotshoe as the master but disable that particular flash for exposure. I use the second flash as the key (main) light on a stand. The third light, I use it as a fill light at lower power on a stand as well. The fourth light is used as a background light, hair light, rim light, or whatever you like to light. </p>

<p>If I want to be portable, I typically use two to three flash heads. I use a flash bracket to raise the flash higher on the camera and use it as the fill light. The second flash is used as the key light and I keep this on a stand. The third flash is optional but once again can be used to light the background, hair, rim, etc...</p>

<p>The 580ex IIs have about another stop of light output. That's twice as bright as the 430ex. The older 550ex and the 580ex are about the same brightness as the current 580ex II. If budget is tight, I would even purchasing one of the older flashes. The reason why I say this is that Canon's flash system uses ratio to control the light output of group A and B. If the flash powers are different, then the ratio of the flash power may be little more difficult to set to get the desired exposure. Group C is controlled individually so a 430ex would make a perfect fit but if you want to light up a bigger area, then a 580ex may come in handy.</p>

<p>Now, to answer your second question... Yes, off shoe flash makes a tremendous amount of difference. This is because when the flash is mounted in the hotshoe, the flash axis and the lens axis are almost parallel and the shadows that create depth disappears. Think of it this way... Whatever the flash can see, the camera sees. Therefore you loose shadows under the nose, neck, etc.</p>

<p>Once you see the difference, you may not go back. The only time I shoot with one flash in the hot shoe is when I use bounce flash. By bouncing the flash, you're effectively moving the light source off the camera. The wall or ceiling that you're bouncing off becomes the new light source.</p>

<p>I usually recommend people to buy atleast two flashes to start out. If you don't want to buy two flashes, buy Canon's OC-E3 E-TTL cable so that you can atleast hold the flash up high with you hand. Get the main flash off the camera body. If you feel that you need a second flash as a fill flash, purchase it when you are ready to move to the next level.</p>

<p> </p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>buy Canon's OC-E3 E-TTL cable</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The Chinese knockoffs on eBay cost about 1/5 the price and work just fine. I'd recommend them rather than paying what the Canon cable costs.</p>

[paulo_fonseca1]

<p>i had to make the same choice a few days ago, and decided to bite the bullet and go for the big one. i haven't used it much but so far i couldn't be more satisfied.<br>

you might want to check niel van niekerk's site http://neilvn.com/tangents/, which contains invaluable information about flash photography. in particular, here's what he says about the choice of the flashgun: http://neilvn.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/which-flashgun/.<br>

that said, the 430 seems to be a perfectly capable flash with many happy owners. the one thing that really bugs me and that i have never understood is why, if they could chose just one sense, they decided to let it rotate 180degrees to the left and not to the right... finally, if you don't care going offbrand, there's also the nissin di866 which has received some good reviews.<br>

good luck</p>

 

[markonestudios]

Erik, I would suggest you check out Neil's site (link above) and also read about Canon's flash system here: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

<p>The 580 has more power and more features which can *potentially* give you greater flexibility, but it's up to you to figure out how to use them. Before you go and buy any off-camera lighting accessories (triggers, cords, etc.) take time to learn about flash in general, the limitations of on-camera flash and the various workarounds. I use on-camera flash and have only just started to explore off-cam flash. Exciting stuff but I know in a pinch I can fall back on my on-cam flash knowledge and get the job done with flash use barely noticeable.

<p>In short, I would get the 580 if money was not an issue, read about flash usage and experiment with the light...

[neil_van_niekerk2]

<p>I would not recommend the 430 EX II for one thing alone - it can't take a CP-E4 battery pack.<br>

So while it might be a cute flash to use for snapshots and personal photography, the lack of being able to use a battery pack, immediately puts it outside the realm of professional use.</p>