The Moisture

[NimArt]

<p>Hi<br>

Actually I didn't know which category I should tell my problem.<br>

First : I have a Canon 7D with 70-200Lf4 ,17-40L f4 and a 50mmf1.8<br>

I have moved to Bangalore-India from Tehran- Iran and my problem is that this city has a lot of humidity, many rains and although the sun is shining it has a lot of humidity<br>

I wanted to know if the humidity caused my camera and lenses damaged or not and if so; how could I save them from the moisture.<br>

For sure when I am at the town or somewhere else for shooting some photos there is no way to protect my camera from the moisture,BUT when I am at home and my camera and lenses are in them bags; Is there any way to save and protect my camera from the moisture?<br>

your thoughts are so appreciated</p>

<p>thanks in advance<br>

Nima</p>

<p> </p>

[lester_wareham]

It is important as the humidity can promote fungus which will damage the optical surfaces.

 

For the tropics many use a dry cabinet, this has a small heat source to keep the contents dry.

 

There have been many posts on this topic before, a search of the forum will turn up lots of information including

manufactures if my memory serves.

[William Michael]

<p>You may find advice to keep the lenses in sealed bags with Silica Gel Canisters / pillows (like the ones the camera box had in it.) – I advise against this method, for two reasons:</p>

<ol>

<li>You actually NEED airflow</li>

<li>The Silica gel pillows get full of moisture very quickly.</li>

</ol>

<p>As I understand, most fungus starts to grow around 80% humidity.<br />A simple humidity controlled storage cabinet can be made using an existing cabinet and a light bulb inside. The cabinet should <strong>not be air-tight.</strong><br />Drill some holes top and bottom – an air flow potential.<br>

You need to try different wattage globes such that the temperature within the box is around 6°C to 8°C higher than the ambient room temperature.<br />Situate the cabinet next to an INTERNAL WALL – And not behind or near a bathroom or laundry.<br />You can buy a cheap Thermometer for the Cabinet and while you are at it - buy an Hygrometer (Measures HUMIITY) - if you want to be particular – and for the small investment, I suggest you do that<br />You are aiming for about 40% humidity inside the cabinet.<br />There is no need to have the temperature inside the box very hot – so in very hot climates (and assuming even if not air-conditioned apartments), the ambient room temperature might get to mid 30°C during the day – in this case the cabinet being <strong>just a bit warmer</strong> will suffice. <em>You really don’t want the lenses sitting in 38</em><em>°C all the time.</em> But I expect the apartment will be air-conditioned or at least fan cooled?</p>

<p>There are commercially available "Dry Cabinets".</p>

<p>If I were living in the conditions you describe, I would make a cabinet like I described. - But that's my style & and this was for use in my home and original studio: you might be moving around more or renting - I don't know - you should look into what's avialable commercially - it might be easier, cheaper and more flexible for you.</p>

<p>I have one which I made from an old style hardwood office file cabinet (about 4’6” high) it suited our “décor” – as I was “instructed”. I still use it to store my gear, but I now have air-conditioning and have moved residence to farther away from the seaboard and a generally cooler climate - so I don’t use the lamp inside very often – but there are still “monsoon” type weeks we get where I live now and that requires a simple flick of the switch. I have thought about putting in a couple of those 12v 3" computer rack fans just to make the air flow all the time, but have never gotten around to it. Most of the time now, my “use every day gear” sits in the camera bag – but that bag is left open, in a dry room.</p>

<p>WW</p>

[alfonso_valdes]

<p>Not an expert in these environments, but I would think you want your camera to "breathe" when it is at home (that is, not in an airtight case or bag) to release the humidity acquired during the day. Putting it in some kind of sealed storage might be counter-productive because it seals in the humidity picked up during the day.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>PS: was just having a chat to a good friend, as I was typing my previous comments - he mentioned that there are more energy efficient warming "bars" now, rather than using a couple of low wattage light globes - that may well be and you should investigate that . . . I built my "Lens Cabinet" last century so a couple of 60 watt globes, worked fine then. </p>

[NimArt]

<p>Thank you all of you for your nice and usefull comments on my question.<br>

regards<br>

Nima</p>

[avijitsett]

<p>Hi Nima,<br>

I have also recently moved from Beijing, China to Bangalore, India. And I have Canon 450D, 70-200mm/4L, Canon 100mm/2.8 macro non-IS, Canon 17-55mm/2.8. I just keep all the lenses and camera in standard cabinet in Lowepro bags. Actually humidity is not so much here (I am originally from east of India where humidity generally stays above 80% and can reach 100%). I have not found any problem in Bangalore. If you think that you need protection, put the camera and lenses in an air tight box with dried silica gels. <br>

Regards<br>

Avijit</p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>Well, WW knows a lot about a lot of things, and I completely agree with him that a "tropical box" will solve your problems. However, I have to take issue with his assessment of the silica gel approach. It's in fact my preferred approach. I live in a coastal region plagued with very high humidity, and I don't always have electricity (hurricanes and other annoyances). I also wanted a solution that I can take on the road, where I need portability and can't use electricity. With regard to his specific criticisms:</p>

<p>(1) You do need air flow, but you don't need a lot of it. You can achieve all the airflow you need by housing your lenses loosely (i.e. with space around them) in a humidity controlled cabinet. You don't actually need a column of warm air rising around them.</p>

<p>(2) He's right about silica gel taking on too much moisture and becoming more of a problem than a solution. However, that's only if you neglect the condition of your humidity controlled environment. One has to drive off moisture from the silica gel from time to time to maintain the right humidity.</p>

<p>My approach, which has worked extremely well for me for the several years that I've lived in this region, is to store all of my optics in a pellican-like case (insulated, sealed) with very large silica gel bags. The case is compartmentalized with wooden dividers and large holes for air movement. I monitor humidity with humidity indicator cards. I dehumidify my silica gel packs from time to time by placing them atop an electric radiator or baseboard heater, or by placing them in a warm oven. On the very rare days I actually have very low ambient humidity, and when that humidity is lower than inside my case, I just open up my entire case to air. I drive off moisture to a lower-end target of 30% RH. It's possible that a lower RH can be risky to optical coatings. (Anyway, Zeiss recommends against it.) When the humidity reaches 50%, I then start dehumifying my bags. So 30-50% is my working range. To achieve this range, I dry out my silica perhaps 4 times per year.</p>

<p>It works, and it's really more precise than a tropical box. It's also cheaper, smaller, more portable, and more energy efficient. (And yes, I've tried the tropical box approach. It didn't work as well. Maybe I needed more wattage.)</p>

[William Michael]

<p>HA!<br />Not sure if that was a <em>Sarah Scathe . . .</em> <br />or a <em>Fox Finetuning . . .</em></p>

<p>My attempt at frivolity aside - I agree 100% with Sarah points <strong>as she outlined how to use a SEALED and INSULATED </strong><em>PELICAN-type</em><strong> CASE with Silica Gels.</strong></p>

<p>The written word is often an inadequate means to express nuance succinctly. More explanation of my previous is necessary</p>

<p>I read and answered the question literally: <em>“</em><em>BUT <strong>when I am at home</strong> and my camera and lenses are in them bags; Is there any way to save and protect my camera from the moisture?” </em><br />So my advice (and comments) were centred around “at home”. And also “simple” (with stuff already handy).</p>

<p>If the lenses are loosely arranged in a cabinet with a few holes top and bottom located near an inside wall of a room NOT near the kitchen or the Bathroom or the Laundry and the cabinet does have a moderate warming device inside . . . and even if the warming device <strong>is not used often</strong> – then it is reasonable to assume that there will be a very small chance of some fungus growing.</p>

<p>OTOH, - - - I was referencing sealed PLASTIC BAGS – like big zip lock ones which I have seen used by some photographers when on the road as I have read and heard that method of storage suggested before - - - If the lenses are kept in sealed plastic bags and those bags have a few of the little silica gel pillows (<em>like what come with the camera</em> – I actually wrote that) then it is reasonable to assume the silica pillows will get saturated quite quickly and if they are not dried out the sealed bags will be a fungus farm. The same warning applies to storing gear in a closed <strong><em>older style</em></strong> camera case with lots of FOAM inside it - or worse - <strong>leather</strong> inside it: or worse still - lenses and cameras in there old style individual leather cases.</p>

<p>I have no issue with the points Sarah made about:<br />being energy efficient (note my PS)<br />the method of drying LARGE silica pillows<br />having a mobile ready to roll set up<br />ensurimg the storage environment is not overly dry (30% is my understanding also)</p>

<p>. . . and as I mentioned my “use now” gear now sits in my camera bags with the lid open and my cupboard is still used for gear storage, but rarely gets warmed up.</p>

<p>If the OP uses a large sealed, INSULATED (insulated is a necessary adjective IMO) "pelican" type case and LOOSELY packs the gear in it and uses BIG silica pillows and MONITORS the humidity and DRIES the silica pillows when necessary, I have not argument at all, with that method.</p>

<p>Sarah? . . .</p>

<p>WW</p>

<p>PS:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>(And yes, I've tried the tropical box approach. It didn't work as well. Maybe I needed more wattage.)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Not necessarily did you need more wattage – (meaning to give you more temperature difference to the ambient), but maybe you needed, for your circumstance, more stability of the lenses environment, but in short time period segements . . . I am thinking that when you tried this maybe the gear was in and out too much and or your ambient humidity was “high” all the time – so then (and now) your insulated and sealed case works best for you.</p>

<p> </p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>WW, my friend, I would never "scathe" at you! :-)</p>

<p>I often wondered about the insulation. I just have it because I have it. However, I think it does offer some stability to my system. For instance, when the ambient temperature drops, the inside of the case stays warm, and hence the RH doesn't spike. Cooling is very gradual, allowing the silica bags to do their job. I figure gradual is good in all directions and all respects.</p>

<p>Somewhere in the back of my head, I always remember with horrors when I was photographing a high school field trip in the desert. I left some of my gear behind in a car, and when I returned, parts of my camera case were melted. The lens inside survived (but was awfully hot -- too hot to hold!). I think if it weren't surrounded by foam, it would have perished. Insulation is sometimes a really good thing, but not necessarily with respect to humidity control. If I had to leave my optics case in the truck for any reason, I wouldn't be growing baby ulcers thinking about their temperature state.</p>

<p>With regard to the tropical box -- Stability wasn't the problem. I actually tried this approach for some of my antique cameras. I put them in a display case with incandescent lights to warm the interior and show off the cameras. I thought it was a pretty cool idea -- putting my cameras to good use in a display case, and humidity controlling them at the same time. However, it didn't really knock out enough of the humidity. I really live in a soup here, sometimes, and the indicator cards I keep out (e.g. taped to the wall) are almost always solid pink from top to bottom (off the scale somewhere well above 80% RH). As I said, more wattage might have made the difference, but how bright does anyone want a display case? My display cases are now filled with silica gel.</p>

<p>BTW, I think bagging lenses with (properly dehumidified) silica gel packs is probably safe. That's how the things are shipped to us, after all. However, I don't like compartmentalizing humidity control in that fashion, as it's hard to regulate humidity levels -- hence the big case (which I call the "mother ship"). I think it would be too easy to get humidity levels wrong. That said, one of the items I always carry is a big freezer bag with a silica gel pack inside. It's my emergency shelter/drier, for when I get caught in a bad situation.</p>

<p>Nima, in case you are interested, my "mother ship" is a very large Cambro food carrier. GREAT case -- but somewhat heavy.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>Ha! Hiya!</p>

<p>There are some here at PN I would like a day, maybe two, face to face discussing stuff and trading experiences (and beer or etc also) - your name was on that list a while ago.</p>

<p>I agree about “slow” movement in both directions.<br>

(I guess?) You are old enough to remember Film’s Temperature suggested slow rise and cooling times for field trips and carrying a film chest?</p>

<p>On the Plastic Bags and carrying lenses in them with silica gel packs: now you have brought it up more directly - I have to admit I do use this method – for carrying lenses and even over a week - and also for protecting them in rain and by the sea.<br>

Zip lock bags and large “garbage bin sized” plastic bags are part of my standard “accessories kit”.<br>

I just would not (and did not want to) openly suggest this, but rather I wnated to discourage this method as a “good” storage alternative – for the reasons I have outlined above.<br>

I trust Nima understands my thinking and the advantages & shortcomings of all the methods we have discussed.</p>

<p>Now you have described more, your “soup bowl” environment: yes I think more wattage was the answer for your display cabinet – blind them with 2 x 500 floodlights would be a most suitable solution . . . perhpas strobe them for more impact!</p>

<p>WW</p>

<p> </p>

[William Michael]

<p> . . . OK . . . I just googled "Cambro food carrier" . . . same . . . same . . . I have two large "ESKY" food containers that I have used for extended field trips to inland AUS and up north Queensland and I have little "ESKY" which I used to use for the Film.</p>

<p> </p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>Ha! You're kidding! (Great minds think alike.)</p>

<p>OK, now I'll make you jealous: I found mine -- a huge one -- at the local landfill for free. I was dumping a trailer full of construction scrap at the time.</p>

<p>I got started seriously in photography as an adolescent in the early 70's, so yes, I'm old enough to remember lots of that stuff. However, I wasn't too zealous about film temps until they went into the soup. At that point I was careful to keep my various solutions from varying any more than 1 deg F from each other, and my developer of course had to be spot-on. (I was pretty compulsive -- got consistent results.)</p>

<p>I, too, would enjoy discussing photography with you over lunch someday. If you're ever in the neighborhood... which would be a very long trip indeed... ;-)</p>

[William Michael]

<p>ROFPML . . .<br>

I paid full price for my ESKYS – but I think one was a Christmas present.<br>

<strong> </strong><br>

<strong>Jealous:</strong> the best I have ever done is at a roadside household cleanup (in the ‘burbs the householders put out their old stuff and the local council takes it away for “free” twice a year)<br>

I was driving and spied a tripod, enlarger and a few trays – they were all trashed and the tripod a cheap floppy thing – BUT . . . Tripod head + Enlarge base plate + Enlarger Stem (Hacksaw + Drill + A Few Nuts Bolts & Washers) = Really Good Copy Stand.</p>

<p>Ha! – I was reasonably pedantic with colour film . . . but I did get into the (naughty) habit of shooting Tri – X (home rolled 24’s in reusable cassettes) then deciding the ASA later . . . and adjusting the temp and duration to suit the circumstance.</p>

<p>By rough calculation we went to Primary School together . . . plus or minus three years . . . anybody who uses the word “<em>adolescent</em>” in a meaningful way, went to school with me. <br>

<br>

WW</p>