What do I need to make this work?

[margie_willbanks]

<p>Looking for input on a 3-point lighting system for my studio (approx. 11' x 18' with 7' ceiling), something I could also take on location. I'd like to keep it under $1000, but I would like to get something that will be decent enough so that a year from now I won't wish I had gone ahead and spent a bit more for something better.</p>

<p>I've been debating between the Photo Basics 231 Strobelight Plus 3-light Kit (200 effective watts per second w/ 100 watt modeling lamp), or a couple of Alien Bees B-400 flash units (400 effective watts per second w/ 150 watt modeling lamp). Both the Photo Basics and Alien Bees lights come with built-in slave trippers and I have a Canon Speedlight 580 EXII that I'm still learning to use.</p>

<p>Amazon sells the 3 light Photo Basics kit for around $794 and it comes with more accessories (2 - 24" x 36" softboxes, barn-doors and gels for the backlight and wheeled carrying case), but I'm a little concerned about the 200 wps being enough.<br /><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Photo-Basics-231-Strobelite-Three/dp/B001AG2M4K/ref=dp_return_2?ie=UTF8&m=A17MC6HOH9AVE6&n=3462181&s=photo">hyperlink</a></p>

<p>I think I can get a better set-up for about the same amount ($766) with alien bees if I use my speedlight as the third light, but I'm not sure I'm looking at the right equipment to make it work (preferably wirelessly):<br /> (2) Alien Bees B-400B flash units<br />(2) LS3050 10' general purpose light stands<br />(1) CSRB CyberSync Battery Powered Trigger Receiver<br />(1) CST CyberSync Trigger Transmitter<br />(1) FSB2436 24" x 36" softbox (I have an umbrella I planned to use for the fill; plan on using the soft box for main light and speedlight for backlight)<br /><br />Soooo....now the questions:</p>

<ol>

<li>Is my plan for designating main, fill and back lights good, or is there a better way to achieve this?</li>

<li>Is the Alien Bee equipment list merely adequate, overkill, or about right for what I want to do? </li>

<li>Would the Alien Bees be the better investment in the long-run?</li>

<li>What would I need to add/spend if I wanted to use the lights on location (battery, cases, etc.)?</li>

<li>And would I still need transmitter/receiver if I bought the Photo Basics kit?</li>

</ol>

<p>Frankly, I'm a little overwhelmed with it all so I appreciate any suggestions.</p>

[margie_willbanks]

<p>Sorry, here's that Amazon Photo Basics link again:<br /> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Photo-Basics-231-Strobelite-Three/dp/tech-data/B001AG2M4K/ref=de_a_smtd?ie=UTF8&m=A17MC6HOH9AVE6">PhotoBasics</a></p>

[leicaglow]

<p>First things first, Margie: I wouldn't try to "build" a system on off-brand (or at least to me, unknown brand) flashes, given your budget. Stick with Alien Bee's, if that's what you want. I use a wonderful SP system that I've collected for my home studio, and love it. But I also like Buff's commitment to his two flash lines.</p>

<p>200ws is okay for a kicker or background light, especially if you've got a couple B-400's. I would think you'd need one more stand though. I'm not a huge CyberSync fan, but you might also look at Buff's (Alien Bee's) Einstein and other triggers. I would probably get another soft box, since they are relatively inexpensive, and the one you have listed is a little small for my preference. Alternatively, you could buy an Impac 42" round shoot-through panel (which has the fabric to use as a reflector also). I would add another component to think about: filters. Rosco's are a decent and affordable alternative. You may not need them right off the bat.</p>

<p>2. I think Alien Bee's, while not top of the line, are probably a good choice for mid-level flashes that I would depend on for traveling around. 3. I think they are fine, and as I said, I think Paul Buff's commitment to his line is very commendable. 5. Look at his new Vagabon (Vagabaun... seems like he spells it differently). 5. I wouldn't buy the Photo Basics kit.</p>

[margie_willbanks]

<p>Hi Michael and thanks for your response. To clarify, the Photo Basics lights are made by Westcott so I don't know if that would change your opinion, but based on my research I figured that Alien Bees would be likely to provide decent lights with the wattage I needed at a reasonable price so thanks for confirming that.</p>

<p>I'm not really familiar with CyberSync...just saw that some folks really liked them; I will check out the Einsteins, as well as the Vagabaun line and softbox brands you mentioned.</p>

<p>Just to confirm...there's no getting around the need for wireless transmitter/receiver unless I keep my speedlight on my hotshoe, correct?</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

[earl_moore]

A couple things that pop out to me Margie.......

 

1.) Those Westcotts are adjustable from only full to 1/4 power. The Bees will give you much greater range.

2.) Alienbees resale value is pretty insane. I frequently see people paying over new from PCB prices for used Bees on Ebay. It blows my mind. So if you did decide to make a change in a year, you really would not be out money at all.

 

A recommendation, if I may. Depending on your use, you may want to look at something like the RF-602 wireless triggers instead of the Cybersyncs. These can work with the shoe to trigger your 580exII or with the included 3.5mm cable to trigger the Bees. Use the money you save to upgrade one Bee to the 800, and grab a new Mini-Lithium battery to power your strobes on location.

 

Also, Michael recommends a larger softbox, but with 7' ceilings I think you may find space an issue.

[devon_mccarroll]

<p>Just my two cents...I use the Cybersyncs and love them! I have their shoe-mount trigger on my Nikon D80 and it works great!</p>

[leicaglow]

<p>My only experience with Cybersyncs is they failed on two shoots I was assisting with. I had to pull out my Cactus syncs on the last shoot, in order to get my colleague through it.</p>

<p>Sorry, I didn't realize they were Westcott. Yes, they are not off brand, but I have never worked with those before to give an impression.</p>

<p>I know a lot of photographers work with their lights off the ceiling. It depends on the style of your shots. Even with low ceilings, you can use a larger box, but your main light might be more from the side (which is how I like to do portraiture).</p>

[donnie_strickland]

<p>Go with the AB's. I would get AB800's (in fact that's what I bought when it came time). You <strong>will </strong>occasionally need the power. You might be able to get by with one 400 but the price difference isn't that much.</p>

<p>You could go with one of the Alien Bee packages, say the <a href="http://www.alienbees.com/digi.html">DigiBee</a>, and add a softbox or two. You get a discount on all accessories when you buy a package. The more lights you buy, the bigger the discount. I got the Giant Softbox (30" by 60") and two mediums.</p>

<p>I can't comment on the Photo Basics kit as I have no experience with it. It's hard to go wrong with Alien Bee/Paul C. Buff products as they gladly stand behind their products, and are located in Nashville, TN so your stuff doesn't have to go overseas if there's a problem.</p>

<p>Just my 2¢.</p>

[margie_willbanks]

<p>Wow, thanks everyone for the great input! I have decided to go with the Alien Bees based on the feedback. Not sure how many yet, but will probably start with at least one 800 and a soft box. </p>

<p>It occurred to me today that I may be able to get by with one Alien B as my main light with a reflector, and use my speedlight on camera as a fill, but I may go ahead and get two Alien Bs since as Donnie pointed out I can get a good deal on a package. The 800s are not much more than the 400s so it seems worth it to get at least one if not two. </p>

<p>Still researching triggers...I'll take a look at those RF-602s as well. Thanks too, Earl, for the mini-Lith suggestion and for the resale info on the Bs!</p>

<p>Please forgive my ignorance, but will I still need at least one receiver since the Bs have built-in slave trippers? Or is it possible to trip the speedlight without a receiver thus tripping the Bs?</p>

<p>Again, thanks so much...this site is my one of my best sources of information thanks to everyone's willingness to share their knowledge!</p>

[leicaglow]

<p>Margie, You may or may not need a "trigger". You can use a radio transmitter/receiver, but you could also use an inexpensive $10 Wein Peanut Slave. For inspiration on using your strobe, go to Strobist.com. There are peeps over there who might scoff at using monolights, and use only strobes.</p>

[earl_moore]

<blockquote>

<p>is it possible to trip the speedlight without a receiver thus tripping the Bs?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Actually, an optical slave will not work, since you would need a flash to trigger it in the first place. Unless you would be firing an Alienbee via sync cord or trigger. The Alienbees will come with a sync cord. You could also fire the 580ex via pc cord. <br /> Bottom line, Margie, is that you will need a light fired either via sync cord, radio trigger, or on the camera shoe. Since the 580exII lacks a built in optical slave, it is the likely target.</p>

[leicaglow]

<p>If you've tripped the AB's, then you can trip the speedlight with an optical slave. You just need one flash to do that. Maggie didn't say she wasn't getting the RF triggers, she asked if she needed one to fire the speedlight.</p>

[earl_moore]

<blockquote>

<p>is it possible to trip the speedlight without a receiver thus tripping the Bs?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No need to get argumentative, just reread.</p>

[margie_willbanks]

<p>Ok, sorry I am taking b-a-b-y steps... I looked back over my flash/camera manuals and checked out the strobist.com website (thanks for that site recommendation Michael).</p>

<p>Earl said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Bottom line, Margie, is that you will need a light fired either via sync cord, radio trigger, or on the camera shoe.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>And Michael said:</p>

<blockquote>If you've tripped the AB's, then you can trip the speedlight with an optical slave.</blockquote>

<p>So the haze is clearing and I think I've got this now...</p>

<p>I can use the sync cord to trip the Alien Bees, but will need an optical trigger to trip the speedlight if using off camera. Correct?</p>

[leicaglow]

<blockquote>

<p>I can use the sync cord to trip the Alien Bees, but will need an optical trigger to trip the speedlight if using off camera. Correct?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, and yes, assuming your speedlight has no built-in trigger (I don't use Canon flashes, so I don't know for sure). In that case, you can use an optical slave (peanut, if you like) to do the job.</p>

<p>Earl, maybe if <em>you </em>re-read, you won't think I'm being argumentative<g>... which I was not.</p>

[margie_willbanks]

<p>Ok, thanks Michael. I know the speedlight can be used as a slave so I think I will hold off on triggers for now and experiment a bit first. I've learned quite a bit to digest in the last couple of days and really appreciate all the input from everyone! That Strobist site is great and they have a forum on Flickr which was helpful too so thanks again for recommending it.</p>

<p>Cheers!</p>