One-Time Deal

[tnaskedov]

<p >Okay, looking for some advice on a one-time deal (not starting a new business or anything), and I appreciate any help or advice. I took some photographs of a local hotel my wife works for (she's in management, but did not request the photos, just suggested I was a capable photographer) that they were to use in internal operations (in other words, not for advertising or public consumption), so I did them for free. They liked the photos enough that they'd like to use them in some advertising now, and are wanting to negotiate a price to use them (my wife is removed from this).<br>

My questions:<br>

When I sell them, what do I sell? Do I sell one time use rights? Do I sell them the photos outright?<br>

Also, what's a decent price to ask for? I realize this is an open-ended question, but I'm looking more for a reference of what something like this sells for.<br>

I hope I'm clear in what I'm asking. I'm no pro, but I could sure use some pro advice! Thanks</p>

<p>Todd</p>

[john_a5]

<p>Generally, you sell usage rights. It might be one time or it might be for a year or 5 years. Sometimes they want unlimited use into the future. Usage is also generally stated in terms of media you are licensing the use in, like consumer magazines, trade magazines, direct mail, outdoor, web etc. It is generally handled on the basis of what the person wants to buy and what you are willing to sell. Generally, the more use they want the better deal for them as usage prices generally drop with multiple uses--2+3= 4 in such cases, if you get my drift.</p>

<p>There are some sites out there that do give prices, you can check stock agencies pricing, but I generally find that they give lowball prices. As a one time thing, it might be fine to use those as a guideline. The nice things is that it is an objective value you can point to and one they would have to spring for to buy a generic image--while yours is specific to their business.</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

[mariosforsos]

<p>John is right: you sell the right to use each photo for a specific medium, at a specific size, for a specific length of time and, if applicable, for a specific print circulation. These are all the factors which determine the usage price of an image. So,</p>

<p>if they're planning to print your image on the cover of their brochure (A4) which will go out in 50,000 copies for approximately 1 year, then you would charge, say 1,000 USD (the amount is purely nominal for calculation purposes). If they double the number of copies or the length of time, you could charge, say 1,500 USD or something like that. And so on and so forth.</p>

<p>if they're planning to use the image at a postage stamp size on their website, at the front page, you could ask for, say 250 USD. If on the second page, 200 USD. If on a larger size on the front page, say 350 USD. You get the idea.</p>

<p>Of course, you could sell them the complete rights in perpetia (forever) for 10,000 USD and be done with it.</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>my wife works for... ...my wife is removed from this</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You wife may not be involved in the actual communications but she is not removed from "this". Preferably the effects will be helpful or, otherwise, minimal.</p>

[mitch_hammes]

<p>My question is why get tangled up with cost, licensing, rights, useage etc if you aren't a pro and aren't planning to start a business? Unless the hotel is a Hilton/Hyatt/Ritz Carlton, just consider it a compliment that they like your work, let your wife take credit for the contribution and keep enjoying photography as a hobby. If you really think you should get paid, sell the photos outright for just enough to take your wife out for a nice dinner and brag about how good you are to the guys. And I agree with John....your wife is most definately not removed from 'this'. The result will someday, somehow, reflect on her either positively or negatively.</p>

[ted_suss]

<p>I'm pretty much in agreement with Mitch. In your position, if they view how you handled this favorably, it will benefit her (in turn you) positively.<br>

Why not ask the hotel for an "escape weekend" or something on that order that they can comp you?<br>

Just a suggestion and let us all know how it unfolds....-TED :-)</p>

[tnaskedov]

<p>All right, thanks everyone for taking the time to respond! One thing on my wife: she IS removed. When she suggested I could take them, she told the person in charge up front that they'd have to pay if they wanted to use them as advertising/promotion (before she even brought up the idea to me), and that she would not be involved in any negotiation. She isn't involved at the conversation at this point, and I'm certainly not going to do anything that will leave a bad taste in her coworkers' mouths! So, when I say she is removed, I mean that she is not feeding me any inside info (she would refuse to ask for it) and I'm not negotiating through her. Advertising/Promotion is not her area at the hotel.</p>

<p>Anyway, to get a little more specific. At this point, I've asked the person in charge what specific photos she wants to use, where she wants to use them, and for how long. I have two types of photos they're looking at. The first is the set of photos of the hotel I took specifically for them. I'm thinking about one set price for this group, depending on how widespread the usage (anticipating something like a couple hundred dollars). The second group consists of photos I've taken around the area previously that I DO sell as fine art prints (though not much, as I'm not pushing the business side of my photography). For these, I'm thinking a significantly higher price and pricing them individually. Please let me know what you think of this structure.</p>

<p>As far as my business ambitions, I AM trying to get into that side of photography, but I'm not selling out to the process yet, as there seems to be a gloomy forecast for professional photography in general and I'm still learning (like I am here, with your help!). So I'm not giving up my day job yet. I am looking at this as a possible way to get my work in front of people, and a way to get "tangled up" with business specifics as a learning experience. If I don't make all the money off this I could, no biggie, I just want to try it. I'll make sure everyone involved is satisfied with the deal so there are no hard feelings. </p>

<p>Thanks again!<br>

Todd</p>

[john_h.1]

<p>You don't seem to understand that your wife not being involved with negotiation, conversation or feeding info is not enough to count as being removed from the situation. Likewise with your intent not to have problems arise. No situation resulting in some level of negativity to mere misunderstanding ever intends for that to happen. The reality is that when one engages in business with employers of themselves or their family, it can cause unintended and undesirable consequences. No one here is predicting problems to or saying the odds of that are high, but if you want to "to get "tangled up" with business specifics as a learning experience", listen to what people are telling you about engaging in such business.</p>

[tnaskedov]

<p>Hi John,<br>

I'm not trying to get in an argument. I AM listening to what people are telling me, and I appreciate everyone's responses. I understand what you mean, but I explain it that way to say that my wife's involvement is irrelevant here. I know things in any seemingly simple situation can go sour, but in this case there would be no effect, positive or negative, on my wife. But, I digress : ) I understand your point and take note of it, thanks. </p>

<p>Now, about my roughly outlined plan...got word from the hotel, they want to keep costs low and so want only the hotel photos, not my personal photos as well. So, I think I'll ask for one set price and leave it at that. Thanks again, everyone, for your wisdom and advice!</p>

<p>Todd</p>