Short winter question.

[bryan_loo]

<p>I know it's that time of year again, when photo forums get clogged with 'cold weather camera' threads. But I just have a short question. I'm finally getting my Leica M system sometime next week, and this just popped up in my head. Needless to say, I spent a good two hours so far trolling the internet for answers and have gotten some answers but not quite what I need. So once again, I turn to the knowledgeable folk of photo.net.</p>

<p>Because I decided on a Leica MP a la carte, I realised there's no way for the camera to get to me in time for my next trip at the end of this year(28th of Dec to be exact), and while it's not imperative I get it. I'd love to use it while in Korea. At least this is what I've been told by Schmidt marketing(the Leica distributors here in Singapore). 6-8 weeks clearly isn't enough during the holiday season.</p>

<p>Anyway before I digress further, I decided on alternatives. Maybe I'll still get the a la carte, or;<br>

I'll get an MP off the shelf or,<br>

A new Zeiss Ikon or,<br>

A used M6TTL with some MP inspired stylings(ok all the guy did was change the red dot to a black one and have the MP advance lever installed).</p>

<p>The question then is, how would these cameras fare in cold weather? Give or take, -5C(23F) to around -20C(-4F). With the mechanical M6 and MP, it's of course a no-brainer that they'd survive relatively well, but what I'm concerned about is how the meter will fare, since it requires batteries. The Zeiss Ikon is entirely battery-dependent of course. It is imperative that the meter in all the cameras work in the cold(I can't guesstimate), and of course it would be imperative that the Zeiss Ikon continues to function.</p>

[bryan_loo]

<p>Oh also, I forgot to ask another one of my many never-ending questions. I've heard/read people say you can upgrade the M6TTL finder to the MP one. Is it also possible then to upgrade from a 0.72x VF to a 0.85x VF or does that require far more work and is only possible at assembly?</p>

[SolaresLarrave]

I have used my Leicas (two M6TTL) at low Fahrenheit temperatures... but still above 0° F. I think the meter kinda goes dormant at below 10°F. It will revive afterwards, but at least all the mechanical aspects of the camera don't suffer; that is, you still can use it in fully manual mode.

[SolaresLarrave]

Forgot to add... the change from 0.85 to 0.72 magnification or vice-versa is not really a thing for a repair person. From what I recall, you'd need to replace the entire optical component.

 

Now, when people talk about upgrading the finder they mean to add a small filter that prevents the finder flare under certain conditions. This particular element was not used in Leica bodies since the early eighties, so a number of Leica bodies have flare-prone finders. The MP was built with this little filter and its finder is relatively flare-proof.

 

My two M6TTL bodies show some flare in the finder, especially when I shoot backlit subjects. I learned to live with that... and if I get a bit of flare, I just change my position or location. The upgrade (depending on who does it) can cost from $250 to $350.

[stuart_richardson]

<p>Any of them are fine, just carry extra batteries and keep them in a warm pocket. When the ones you are using give you trouble, take them out and replace them with the warm ones. Repeat as necessary. Also, get the Lithium version of the batteries rather than the alkaline or silver oxide. They do better in the cold. I would not worry about any of them until you start getting really cold (as in -20C and below). P.S. This comes from someone who lives in Iceland (not so cold) and used to live in Vermont (quite cold) and Vladivostok (chilly! And not far from North Korea...so probably colder than the part of Korea will you will visit). Seriously though, unless you are going to be out all day in -10 to -20, I don't think this will be a huge issue. At least it hasn't been in my experience...just make sure you go easy on your camera though -- don't wind it really quickly as when the film gets really cold it can get brittle and break -- you don't want film chips floating around inside your camera where they can foul the transport or shutter. Same goes for the end of the roll -- stop at 36 or 37. </p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>Francisco, would not a change of VF magnification mess up the frame lines that are displayed? Or is the frame line mask a part of the "upgrade"?</p>

[SolaresLarrave]

Mukul, I frankly don't know. But the OP was wondering about the MP-style finder and getting it mixed up with the magnification. I think one can have the frameline display changed easily, but not the magnification.

[colin_elliott]

<p>Bryan, I would suggest you order the a la carte and due to the delay in building it for you, have Leica through you dealer, loan you an MP until yours is delivered, or your holiday is over.<br>

When I ordered my M6 in 1990, I was heading overseas before the camera would arrive.<br>

Leica loaned me one of their factory "loaners" for use on my vacation.<br>

When I returned, my Panda was ready for pick-up !<br>

Second point. Stuart is absolutely right in his comments, with the exception of the fact he is/was living in the "temperate zone".<br>

During my M4/Leicaflex SL days I was living in the Arctic (10 years) and in addition to "enjoying" -35F temperatures, also had the opportunity to experience -57F!!<br>

During my photographic escapades I had no problems with cameras or meters. Leitz did recommend winterizing but I didn't bother.<br>

As mentioned by Stuart, wind/rewind the film veeeerrry slooowly!! Film breakage and/or static electricity are your enemies.</p>

 

[bryan_loo]

<p>Just to clarify. I didn't get 'mixed up' about the magnification. I was just wondering about the process of getting the VF upgraded. If it's just adding a filter, then ok I understand. Changing magnification is probably a process only possible during assembly/construction. But I'll check on the frameline display.</p>

<p>And Stuart, and Colin. Thanks, that does ease some of my worries about batteries seizing up. Like I mentioned, I can't guess the exposure and nail it every single time, so the meters are really important for me. Of course if I go with an electronic camera, there's more to worry about. Although the M4 is meter-less isn't it? </p>

[bryan_loo]

<p>I checked with the local dealer/distributor. For reasons unknown, Leica or their dealers here don't provide loaner M's. I asked what one was supposed to use if he/she sent it for repair, and they said and i quote. Well, wait for it to get back!<br>

But for changing VF magnification, apparently it's possible. For about $1500 and 10 weeks, you can have your magnification swapped out to one of your choice. Everything seems to be possible with Leica, although interestingly enough, when I asked if I could swap the top plate for a brass black paint one(for the M6), I was told that would be impossible because the serial numbers won't tally!</p>

[christoph_hammann]

<p>If you go with one of the "cheaper" alternatives to an a-la-carte Leica MP, there should be some means left for a Sekonic L398A hand-held meter. It's battery-independend and in case it develops problems with the cold, could be kept in a roomy inside Parka pocket. With it, you'll quickly learn to judge light, it's fun!<br>

So, I'd vote for one of the mechanical ones with that meter as a backup.<br>

BTW, you're nothing if not ambitious if you're trolling the whole internet ;-)</p>

[colin_elliott]

<p>Yes, the M4 is sans meter but the Leicaflex isn't. I also had an MR4 meter attached to the M4 All performed without issues at these inhuman temperatures!</p>

[bryan_loo]

<p>Yes I might get myself a good meter too, good as the little Sekonic 308(something like that) is, it's a little bit dinky in feeling for me(got it as a gift and always worried that I would crush it somehow).</p>

<p>And jolly good then. Seems I was worrying a tad too much. Honestly it never worried me when I used to carry point and shoot compacts, though I'd notice the battery dwindle rather quickly if I was out shooting in say Finland during December. But alright then, thanks again for putting my fears to rest!</p>

<p>Though I wonder then how the Zeiss Ikon would survive. Carrying extra batteries is usual for me(I carry batteries with me for all my stuff all the time, from batteries for my flashlight to my camera meters). But would the electronics break from the cold? I hope not.</p>

[pc_b]

<p>Bryan, if you send your camera to Germany yourself, total costs of changing the VF mag. to 0.85x will be around 750USD. They rip you off at your dealer!<br>

Cheers,<br>

Pete</p>

[pc_b]

<p>Bryan, if you send your camera to Germany yourself, total costs of changing the VF mag. to 0.85x will be around 750USD. They rip you off at your dealer!<br>

Cheers,<br>

Pete</p>

[jim_bielecki1]

<p>This may be of interest. This chap took an MP to Antartica earler this year:</p>

<p>http://uk.leica-camera.com/news/news/1/7095.html</p>

<p>Jim B.</p>

<p> </p>