Cancelation of wedding contract

[ted_suss]

<p>Sera,<br>

If the wedding is scheduled for this week, don't give her so much time. You need to force the issue with the Bride, letting her know that if she doesn't release you in writing, you're going to show up and she's going to owe you the full amount of the contract.<br>

If you don't handle this properly, you leave yourself and your reputation at risk. And yes, as someone stated earlier, the groom may be cancelling the photography and the wedding may still be taking place. In either case, get the cancellation and move on.<br>

Please let us know what transpires...-TED :-)</p>

[mike_hitchen]

<blockquote>

<p>You make it complex and complete so the bride / groom can't come back at you later and say - we didn't cancel - or you owe us $xxx.xx for the other photographer or - you owe us engagement photos / prints or.... well you get the point.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Fair enough David, but instead of:</p>

<blockquote>

<p> I, Client, release Sera of all liability, responsibilities and commitments and services regarding our “agreement for wedding photography” (date contract signed), regarding (wedding date). I hereby forfeit my deposit of ($ amount), and no further monies are due or owed by either party (photographer or client).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>sounds all legalese and technical which will make them put it aside to read later. Why not put it in layman's language:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I, Client, cancel all arrangements for our wedding (date). I forfeit my deposit of ($ amount), and no further monies are due or owed by either party (photographer or client).<br>

THIS “CANCELLATION FOR WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHY AGREEMENT” MUST BE RECEIVED BY PHOTOGRAPHER BY MAIL TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE BY 10/15/2010, OR CANCELLATION AGREEMENT BECOMES NULL AND VOID.<br /><br />Signature of Client(s) ______________________________________________</p>

</blockquote>

<p>And I don't really understand why Sera needs to sign it? Does the contract have to be cancelled by mutual consent?</p>

[john_h.1]

<p>There is a lot of legal advice being given, some very specific, without any reference, consideration or even any knowledge of the most important factor of all. The terms of the contract.</p>

<p>Not good.</p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>The important thing is you have not received a valid cancellation notice of any kind. It is so easy to change the name and return email address on any email program to "spoof" a different sender it's not even funny. Phone the bride and email her directly, not the address the email was sent from. You could call the church or reception hall and see if they have been notified of a cancellation as well.</p>

<p> </p>

[picturesque]

<p>Obviously, you have knowledge or a connection beyond the usual, with the bride and groom, or you wouldn't be acting as witness or trust that what they tell you is true. Given that, I would call the bride and speak to her personally. While on the phone, make sure you review the fact that you are sending the cancellation notice and that you are keeping the retainer. If you are able to actually speak to the bride (who signed the contract) and pretty much assure your own intuition that everything is as you were led to believe, my personal opinion is that then, you can not worry so much that the form itself fulfills all legal requirements to the letter. If it were me, I'd use very simple statements and not require a witness. The previous statements are, in no way, legal advice. Just the opposite actually--a recommendation based on intuition, which has not been brought up here.</p>

<p>Sometimes in business, and particularly in predicaments that require swift action, one has to rely on one's intuition. I know I do, and usually, my intuition is right. I have had only one cancellation, and I did not follow the usual recommendations because I found out the real reason for the cancellation, took the 'temperature' of the clients re motivation, and deicded upon a very simple cancellation form, which I received before the actual event date. I considered showing up at the event start, but realized that it was not at all necessary, and actually, would have been embarassing to the clients.</p>

<p>Since you don't have time to consult a lawyer to draft a specific and all encompassing form, I suggest you speak personally to the bride to assess the situation. Then you will know how drastic your next steps should be. Again--<strong>not</strong> legal advice.</p>

[mark_harrington1]

<p>Your problem began when the original contract was signed. You should have a progressive payment schedule detailed. Many photographers require a retainer and final payment some period of time before the wedding date. If your contract included language that a non-refundable retainer was required at the time the contract was executed and final payment 1 week prior to the wedding you would have a breach of contract on the part of the client when they failed to pay on time. Regardless of the legal side, this is just good business sense. The client will be so busy the day of the wedding, they won't be available, want to deal with or won't have on them final payment. Additionally, many people suffer buyer's remorse with any purchase, especialy weddings. The theme changes, they run tight on cash a friend offers to take pictures, or they see an ad for half your price, now they start trying to get out of the contract. You can help avoid some of these issues by keeping in contact with the clients; you could offer a free signature mat, and then send proof for approval 1 month prior to the wedding, you could request a list of must have guest pictures 2 weeks before the wedding. You can send invoices with balance due monthly until paid in full - anything that keeps you in loose but regular communication. It is this regular communication that helps to avoid these situations. Show up, with cancellation agreement in hand, but ready to shoot. Be prepared to find another photographer there; if so, just get the client to sign the cancellation contract and have a nice day.</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>make sure you review the fact that you are sending the cancellation notice and that you are keeping the retainer... ...a recommendation based on intuition</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I highly recommend not giving recommendations on what to tell a client as to what money will be kept, billed or refunded ect. based on intuition and base it, instead, on the exact contractual terms addressing that issue. Other considerations may arise but that's the starting point. Since we don't know what the terms are, we have no basis to recommend anything on that subject right now.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>Aside - Mike Hitchen:</p>

<p>You took my quote and commented upon it.</p>

<p>Please note the quote which you used <strong>was not in context</strong> - the whole quote is:<br>

<em>"But YOU need to cover your butt - this is why I made the other point about the email correspondence </em><em><strong>and I questioned its validity as legal document to cancel a contract</strong></em><em> - from what you have disclosed, all we know is that </em><em><strong>someone</strong></em><em> sent an email to you - using the groom's computer and / or login."</em></p>

<p>The point of my comment was questioning email as a legal document. I don't know if email is a legal document in this circumstance and I was encouraging the OP to find that out. . .</p>

<p>Also note (and I hope the OP does also) that all my comments are couched within what is applicable where I work and my continual advice was for the OP to the ask a local law professional what is applicable to her situation . . . the point being I was attempting to give her some areas of her predicament <strong><em>to ask her Lawyer about</em></strong> rather than give her "solutions" - as such.</p>

<p>WW</p>

 

[picturesque]

<p>John, the recommendation based on intuition is to personally talk to the bride to acquire (through intuition) any helpful information. If you are suggesting that Sera not talk about any money issues, that's fine--my suggestion to do so was incidental to the main purpose.</p>

[sera]

<p>I know everyone is giving me information to help my situation & that its not to be taken as "legal advice". I'm not trying to move slow on this, I would have called the bride as soon as I received that email if I knew what I know now. I'm making the cancellation notice detailed to cover my bases, but I do want her to be able to understand it, yet not have a "loophole" that I could be taken to court over later on. I think everyone on here has given me information that has greatly helped me. Yes, I know a lawyer would make 100% sure I didn't have a loophole & my future cancellation notices will have different wording. For now, this is what I can do with what I have.<br>

I did call the bride this morning and I left her a voicemail. I am a little stressed but everything will work out! I'm waiting on her call back.<br>

I would strongly prefer to get the cancellation notice ASAP rather than go to a wedding that is canceled & then charge her for additionally for that.</p>

[daverhaas]

<p>Sera -</p>

<p>Sounds like you have a plan - Please let us know what happens -</p>

<p>Hopefully she calls you back and you get things straight - Cancelations for whatever reason are not fun - but it's better than driving to the site and not having anyone show up or almost as bad - having another photographer show up.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>If you are suggesting that Sera not talk about any money issues, that's fine</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I don't have any suggestions for Sera about financial issues but thank you for clarifying that you suggest discussing the communicating with the client to assess what the situation with the wedding is and I fully agree with that.</p>

[ianivey]

<p>I don't think John was recommending that Sera, herself, talk, or not talk, about any particular issue. If I understood his comment correctly, I think John was <strong>recommending that people offering advice in this forum stop recommending courses of action to Sera based on intuition.</strong> [edit: sorry; posted before I saw John's response, above.]</p>

<p>A dozen responders have flatly recommended specific steps without any information about what is in Sera's contract with the bride.</p>

<p>In addition, people have, or seem to have, recommended that Sera offer to cancel the contract. But if, for example, Sera's contract allows her to keep a retainer fee, it is precisely the contract that allows Sera to keep that fee. Sera may wish to enforce such a clause in her contract, in the event the Bride demands a refund.</p>

<p>Instead of cancelling the contract, she may want to word her form more carefully to establish that the clients no longer expect her services, <em>per the cancellation clause</em> in her contract (if her contract has such a clause setting forth what will happen if the clients choose not to use her services). So what she may want is a release that specifically <strong>avoids </strong>using language like "cancellation of agreement." Again, this would depend on the contents of Sera's agreement with the bride, which remain mostly a mystery to readers of this thread.</p>

<p>It would be a shame if, based on advice proffered in this forum, Sera executed a form with her client that deprived her of contractual rights she seems to wish to defend.</p>

<p>Contrary to the careless <em>I-wouldn't-bother</em> advice, above, this sort of situation is an excellent time to talk to a contracts lawyer. The upside of doing so is that Sera would likely be able to apply the advice she gets profitably a number of times in the future.</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>I would strongly prefer to get the cancellation notice ASAP rather than go to a wedding that is canceled & then charge her for additionally for that</p>

</blockquote>

<p>What's the basis for an additional fee just because there isn't a formal written notice delivered? Does the contract say there is?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I don't want to make her pay for a wedding that didn't happen.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That legal consult is looking a bit more important right now.</p>

[ianivey]

<p>Quoting myself (I talk to myself all the time, anyway):</p>

<blockquote>

<p>A dozen responders have flatly recommended specific steps without any information about what is in Sera's contract with the bride.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This is not to say knowledge of what's in her contract would render reliable the legal advice offered by anyone here, because good legal advice also depends on understanding the law (and specifically, the law in Sera's jurisdiction).</p>

<p>But to clarify: <strong>"Call the bride"</strong> -- advice offered by more than one person, above -- <strong>is just good, common-sense advice, </strong>not legal advice.</p>

<p>By contrast, recommendations about how to word an amendment to, or cancellation of, the contract, or what legal steps to take after talking with the bride, <em>are </em>legal advice, and are here offered without information about the contents of Sera's contract or understanding of contract law. Aside from "call the bride," probably the best advice Sera could follow would be to be wary of following legal advice offered by non-lawyers in a public forum. And, at least in my experience, the more confident the advice-giver sounds, the more suspicious Sera should be about that advice.</p>

[ted_suss]

<p>Sera,<br>

You're on the right track. Just use common sense and cover your bases and don't stress over this....-TED :-)</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Ian--what you describe is not my understanding of what John said to <strong>to me</strong>. What I understand John to have said to me was that he does not recommend that I recommend to Sera that she discuss what monies would be kept, billed, refunded, etc., based on intuition, and without knowing the actual terms of the contract. My response is--that suggestion was incidental to the suggestion to call the bride and use one's intuition to find out any information that would help clarify the situation. Thinking it over, I would agree. Probably best to keep money out of the conversation.</p>

<p>I also notice that most of the people posting have said that their suggestions do not consitute legal advice--something Sera also acknowledged. I brought up the topic of intuition in a very specific way and not as the basis for others' suggestions thus far.</p>

<p>I agree that a lawyer should be consulted, however Sera does not appear to have the time to do so. This being the case, if I were in her shoes--again--I would rely on my intuition to help me make decisions about my course of action. And again--<strong>this does not constitute legal advice</strong>; just practical advice about what has worked for me in the past. I also think we do not have all the facts (obviously, since we don't know what the contract says), in particular, the specific relationship Sera has with her clients.</p>

<p>As long as Sera knows that none of the suggestions offered constitutes legal advice, and she does appear to know this, I don't see why suggestions can't be made (with disclaimers). It is, after all, up to her to decide her course of action, and some issues can be clarified in the process, such as the issue of charging an additional fee for showing up at a cancelled wedding.</p>

<p><strong>Disclaimer:</strong> the following is not legal advice. The reason a wedding photographer might consider showing up a the start point and time for a wedding that is supposedly cancelled is to protect him or herself from client allegations that the photographer breached the contract, even if a signed cancellation notice is in hand (extra insurance), and especially if it isn't. It is not something one normally charges an additional fee for. The fact that the wedding is a 10 hour round trip is beside the point.</p>

<p>I personally have read about a professional photographer who collected the entire amount of the fee ahead of the wedding, and the FOB then wanted to cancel the contract, with money refunded. The photographer had it in her contract that the money would not be refunded. The FOB took it to court and the judge decided that the photographer was not entitled to keep the entire fee because she did not perform any of the work contracted for. So just because your contract says you can keep some or all of the photography fee does not mean it will hold up in court, particularly if it is the entire amount in question.</p>

[sera]

<p>I did call the bride (just for clarification on here). I know that most conversations are better done via email, it helps both of us know exactly what was said & most likely won't turn into a "but you said this on the phone". I prefer emails & in person meetings, as phone calls can become misconstrued. I would have called her anyway (common sense), I just wanted to figure out what I needed to do before I called her.</p>

<p>I will reply to more of the responses I got when I have more time.</p>

<p>For now, I'm still waiting on the bride to return my call or reply to my emails. Most likely, she is still at work so I'm not too nervous yet...</p>

<p>Since everyone's curious about the money wording, I have:</p>

<p>Client will pay to Photographer a total price of $A on the following terms:<br>

A. A deposit of $1/3 A upon execution of this agreement; and<br>

B. The balance, $2/3 A, on the Wedding Day upon completion of photography<br>

& later on I state:<br>

Client may cancel this contract prior to the Wedding Day, thereby forfeiting all deposits paid, by written notice to Photographer.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Sera--while e-mail conversations record what was 'said', they don't pass along tone of voice, and hence, are not so good when it comes to gathering information using one's intuition. Obviously, in person meetings are the best for this, but between e-mails and a personal phone call, I would say the phone call is better. Even if the bride returns your e-mails, I would still ask for a personal phone call and make sure that it happens. But that is me, and this does not constitute legal advice.</p>

[daverhaas]

<p>Again not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV - so this not Legal Advice - </p>

<p>If this were me - at this point - I'd be planning on doing the wedding for the reasons Nadine has already stated. The last thing you want to have happen is the wedding to go forward without a photographer. Of course if you hear from the bride - then you will know definitely either way. </p>

<p>Again - Not Legal Advise - but I'd suggest a future wording change to your contract stating that services may be canceled only by the person who signed the contract, must be in writing and change "Deposit" to "retainer" . Retainer isn't bullet or lawyer proof - but in our (Wedding Photographer) situations it is far more favorable to us. </p>

<p>I understand what Nadine is saying regarding "intuition" - At least I think I do - By talking to her you could possibly get a sense of whether or not the wedding is really happening and they just don't want you shooting it, which is a different story then the wedding is off - don't show up. </p>

<p>Dave</p>

[William Michael]

<p>On the point of best practice communications. . .</p>

<p>The telephone is the most direct and immediate form of communication over vast distance and perfect when the situation has time constraints - it cuts through the garbage and is very time efficient and has nuance of timbre and tone, BOTH very important non verbal means of communication. And it is cheap as chips - even across the world. </p>

<p>If I cannot have a face to face meeting with a client or a business colleague I will make the effort to telephone them. An email will almost always follow that conversation. It contains what was discussed, stated and agreed to.</p>

<p>The text and layout of that confirming email might be as light weight as - "thanks for the telephone conversation, just confirming I will get those XXXX to you by the end of this week" . . . or on the other hand it might be a well structured point form email addressing each minute topic and the outcome for each. The same email structure will follow any face to face business meeting . . . and it doesn't have to be "big business" either: it is good business practice to formally acknowledge any business meeting: and initiating the confirming correspondence provides leverage.</p>

<p>Also, whilst the protocol of the confirming letter, following any meeting, or the release of minutes following a board or committee meeting is correct business etiquette, frankly it is also just good manners, IMO.</p>

<p>WW</p>

[john_h.1]

<p>We're all on the same page with Nadine.</p>

<p>While the word retainer is appropriate to use, Sera can investigate having a scheme in the future that reliably works like a retainer rather than merely calling it one. Based on what we are told of it so far, it looks like an overhaul is in order. That, I trust, Sera will have time to find a lawyer for.</p>

[fotografz]

<p>I would simply call the Bride and confirm. In addition I would alert her to a follow up e-mail.</p>

<p><strong>Were it I, I would infuse a bit of humanity into any contact.</strong> While the OP doesn't know<em> for sure </em>the reasons for the photography cancellation, or which party instituted the cancelled event (if it indeed is off) ... the communication so far indicates a cancelled wedding ... which may or may not be an emotionally stressful issue. I'd assume it is an emotional issue and proceed based on the basic info provided by the groom so far.</p>

<p><em>Dear (Bride's name), I was sorry to be informed by (Groom's name) via e-mail dated (date), that the wedding I was to photograph on (time and date), has been cancelled. </em><br>

<em>I know this may be a stressful time, however since the original contract was between (photographer or company name) and you, we need an official signed letter of cancelation specifically from you.</em></p>

<p><em>For your convenience I have attached a simple release form which you can print out, sign and return to me. </em></p>

<p><em>Please send a confirming e-mail that you have done so ... and please send the release form as soon as possible.</em></p>

<p><em>Again, my apologies for this necessary step at this time,</em></p>

<p><strong>I would NOT mention any terms of the original contract ... that should stand as it is if further issues come up. All you need is a release from the date. </strong></p>

[ianivey]

<p>Nadine, I didn't intend criticism of you or your prior advice, and I'll let John clarify what he meant if he chooses to do so, rather than continuing to put words in his mouth (and I apologize to both of you if I misunderstood John's comment). </p>

<p>My point about advice in this thread and similar advice solicited and offered elsewhere on this forum is this: simply saying "this is not legal advice" does not make it so. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't.</p>

<p>Some advice, such as to call the bride, is good customer service advice which, if followed, has little chance of weakening one's rights under an existing contract. </p>

<p>However, some advice relates directly to what one should or should not do, or what one is or is not contractually obligated or permitted to do, under an existing contract. In this thread, it was not until late Tuesday that Sera outlined in summary terms, and sans context, a few provisions of her contract. Prior to this, posters offering advice about steps to take to protect contractual rights did so without the benefit of knowing these provisions, and even now, we know little about the contract. For Sera to act on such recommendations about courses of action that could influence her ability to exercise her rights under the contract would be risky.</p>

<p>Some advice, such as advice to "cancel" a contract, might actually lead to the unwanted <em>destruction </em>of important contractual rights. Some people, here, offer these kinds of advice -- with or without an IANAL-type "disclaimer" -- with little understanding of the real consequences of following the advice. Often, the real consequences would be precisely opposite to the intended results. Often, mere precision (or imprecision) of language makes a 180-degree difference, and only a trained eye might spot the key term or phrase that would produce the wrong result.</p>

<p>And I continue to be fascinated by the fact that the wrongness or riskiness of much of this advice is directly proportional to the self-confidence (dare I say arrogance) of the poster. Hence, <strong>I am generally <em>not </em>critical of your advice, Nadine, </strong>because you (much like WW) routinely distinguish yourself by the humility with which you offer your advice. </p>

<p>Having said that, I return to this point: saying "this is not legal advice" and "I am not a lawyer, but..." does not necessarily make what follows non-legal. Furthermore, a disclaimer does not have the effect of reducing readers' tendency to rely on the advice that follows. Indeed, the advice that follows these disclaimers mostly is offered and taken precisely for its purported ability to inform wise action. </p>

<p>This is why lawyer-photographer-lurkers pop in with little, annoying warnings to ignore most of the advice in the thread, and instead call a lawyer. </p>

[picturesque]

<p>Hi Ian--no worries. I didn't take your comments as criticism but I did want to clear up what I understood John H.'s comments to me were. And I understand why you are bringing up the fact that disclaimers don't cover every suggestion or that it is easy to still rely upon suggestions, even if disclaimers are made.</p>

<p>However, I repeat my statement above--the OP or person who receives advice is free to take whatever action he or she thinks appropriate, and some worthwhile information can be gleaned from others' suggestions or description of what one would do in the same situation, given the presence of disclaimers.</p>

<p>Otherwise, this thread would be post after post of "Call your lawyer." Now, it may impress Sera, and she might have called a lawyer, or it may not have, and she would have continued with her 'non-lawyer' handling of this situation. Anyway, rather than being totally unhelpful, I think reading what others might do is still better.</p>

<p>This is why I even brought up use of intuition, which is totally counter to the 'get a lawyer' advice. One would think that use of intuition would be highly risky, and it is, but this process has served me well for a long time. As stated above, in my one and only cancellation, I was able to determine the real motives for the cancellation, and the surrounding circumstances by use of intuition and sleuthing through fellow vendors. I knew then, that a simple cancellation letter was fine, and it was.</p>