Cancelation of wedding contract

[ianivey]

<p>Quite right, Nadine (and I got a laugh out of "Otherwise, this thread would be post after post of 'Call your lawyer.'"). Good intuition often preempts the need for formal invocations of contractual rights. In this business, good intuition includes sensitivity to signals your customer is sending you. And it benefits from clearly-communicated <em>sincerity</em> in your dealings with the customer.</p>

<p>Most of customer service consists of building and maintaining informal aspects of the relationship. This is both talent and skill, and though it can be difficult to teach in a forum thread, a few people here do so effectively, and routinely (not to mention generously).</p>

<p>When we cross over into discussing courses of action with a high likelihood of affecting a questioner's contractual rights and obligations, lawyers reading the thread just worry about the questioner's ability to perceive hidden dangers. :) The problem here is that, although people disclaim their statements, and questioners may acknowledge those disclaimers, the disclaimers do not illuminate any specific pitfalls.</p>

<p>Oh, by the way, I respectfully disagree that intuition is counter to "get a lawyer" advice. Experience informs intuition, and having long experience usually means you've figured out how to navigate treacherous waters without being pulled under. Sometimes your intuition will tell you that you need to protect and/or assert your rights under a contract, perhaps precisely by talking with a lawyer; and sometimes it will tell you that all you need is a gentle conversation and a written follow-up. I'm entirely in favor of judicious use of intuition informed by experience.</p>

[simon_crofts]

<blockquote>

<p>I don't know if email is a legal document in this circumstance and I was encouraging the OP to find that out. . .</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I'd be surprised if US law was very different from UK law on this. In the UK you certainly can make and break contracts by email - or for that matter, you can do it just by spoken word (with a few exceptions not relevant here, such as a contract to sell land). The potential problem is being able to prove that it was the other party to the agreement who sent the email - told you not to turn up. You have to be able to prove that at least 'on the balance of probabilities' - so a signature is nice.</p>

<p>In other words, if the bride has told you one way or another not to turn up, and you can prove she told you that, then you should be off the hook.</p>

<p>All this stuff about a "Cancellation for Wedding Agreement" etc. would just about do the trick, but it's not a logical and clean approach legally. You shouldn't be making a new agreement with them - everything needed is contained in the original agreement. All you need is confirmation that you are no longer required to provide the wedding photography, and the consequences specified for that in the original contract will flow. You don't need to get her to agree a second time to give up the deposit - you just need to point out to her what she already agreed to.</p>

 

[William Michael]

<p>Aside:<br />SC - Yes I copy that comment.<br />And I thank you for taking the time to explain / comment / expand upon my quote. <br />It is same in AUS.<br />Further "Contract" here, can be made even without spoken word - by implication, the (implied) contract of goods offered for sale, for example.<br />ALL my comments were made under the principle of KISS. (In attempting to make it too simple I caught myself up in phraseology in a few of my comments which are technically incorrect).<br />BUT: In so far as one might have an email, or a telephone conversation accompanied by one's diary notes - a signed and witnessed document would stand up as better tangible evidence in most circumstances and most jurisdictions, IMO - a point which you have also made.<br />And the thrust of my comments was for the OP to get professional advice . . . so in that regard until she did consult a Legal Fellow - I was advising her NOT to rely on an email as the cancellation document and I believe that still to be prudent and relevant advice, within the scope of this lay forum.</p>

<p>WW</p>

<p> </p>

[simon_crofts]

<p>Hi William, I wouldn't argue with any of that! Pragmatically - if there is any doubt as to whether the cancellation instruction is genuine, then the safest thing would be to go round to the venue on the day with a camera on the off-chance. Of course, if the venue also tells you it's been cancelled, the risk is probably pretty small...</p>

<p>Otherwise, there shouldn't be too much need to get the bride to sign anything at all. She already signed the contract. As far as the deposit is concerned, possession is 9/10ths of the law, and the contract (we are told) says the photographer keeps the deposit.</p>

<p>Incidentally, if it hadn't been for the cancellation clause (what we've been told of it), you would normally expect the photographer (at least in theory, not that the photographer would necessarily do so) to be able to claim considerably more - the customer should be liable for the full amount of the photographer's loss of profits. But the fact that (we are told) the contract has this cancellation clause that says the photographer only gets to keep the deposit sounds like it really if for the bride & groom's benefit. So they should count themselves lucky that they're just getting away with losing the deposit.</p>

 

[William Michael]

<p>Aside to the thread:<br>

Gidday Simon,<br>

I didn't think you would argue with it: nor (more importantly), I did not think you were arguing with my previous, either.</p>

<p>Pertainent to the thread:<br>

The other fact, (which I omitted) is that the original email (and that is the one to which I was referring) is asssumed to be from the GROOM and <em>NOT</em> the Bride.<br>

Without going into possible scenarios of binding "in common" terms of any contract in with only one signatory acting for both and etc . . .<br>

I think it best to converse with the signatory of the contract and I was guiding the OP in that regard also . . . i.e. To converse with the Bride.</p>

<p>WW </p>

 

[William Michael]

<p>As a general comment:</p>

<p>In my neck of the woods and as I best recall I have had two cancellations at late notice and yes I am secured to keep monies which would cover my losses because I held that day available and did not, or could not take on other work.</p>

<p>However, one cancellation was within only several days to the event, so that best fits this scenario. I believe I have mentioned this incident before, on another thread, anyway, the simple outcome was that I held the deposit (we can say "deposit" here) and the Wedding was actually postponed, not cancelled and I covered that Wedding later, the following year (FWIW - at the same fee structure we had originally agreed, the reason will become apparent)</p>

<p>The salient information in my case was there was a sudden death in the family, and the woman was also a member of the Wedding Party. Actually I think it was the Groom who informed me that the Wedding was "called off" - but it was not until I made investigations, did I find out all the information and the FACTS of the situation.</p>

<p>Armed with the FACTS, I simply “sat tight” for a while and engaged the Bride later and at that meeting we sorted through the options we had available to us . . .</p>

<p>The point is, I am often reminded of a true story my Father related to me in one of his “Sound Business Advice Lessons”.<br>

Now it is not that I always agree with Dad, in fact more often than not I don’t . . . but this is a ripper story and what gives it impact, for me, is that later on I did meet this guy and I asked him if it was true . . . and I think the story is applicable here:</p>

<p>It was near the end of WWII, my Dad was in a protected supply industry and running his business - he was at his supplier, it was about 0800hrs and the boss there was in a flap because the foreman had not arrived for his shift, no telephone call no one answers the home telephone, no contact, whatsoever - I think the foreman began at 0500hrs.<br>

Naturally at that time in history things were (relatively) expensive and jobs were hard to come by and if you had a source of income you didn’t stuff it up (kinda like now) . . . so about 0900hrs the foreman arrives: he cops a mouthful from the supply owner and virtually is summarily dismissed . . . the foreman says words to the effect, “Sorry boss, my wife died in her sleep this morning, I was required at the Hospital and then at the Police Station . . .” </p>

<p>Ask questions from at source; don’t assume anything; know your rights, but keep your powder dry until you know you have all the facts. I think that was my Dad’s point . . . and I can’t argue with that . . .</p>

<p>The bit about <strong><em>keeping your powder dry</em></strong> is relevant to all the discussion in this thread about what or what not to keep as a retainer / deposit / compensation and even WHEN to discuss same, I think. </p>

<p>WW</p>

 

[alex_ling]

<p>Just a thought: While waiting for the bride's reply, it might be useful to contact the groom to see what he meant by the wedding being called off.</p>

 

[john_h.1]

<p>I agree wholeheartedly with Simon's and William's comments including Simon's observation about everything needed to deal with canceled weddings ordinarily being contained in an original agreement. Whether this particular agreement/contract adequately provides for that is another matter and the summary given is not enough to go by.</p>

<p>like Simon says, if there is a properly drafted contract, there should ordinarily be no need for new agreements, just proof that the wedding is canceled.</p>

<p>The mains lessons of the thread... Communication with the client is key, obtaining verification that a wedding is actually canceled is helpful and to have the consequences of a wedding being canceled <strong>clearly</strong> articulated in a contract to avoid unnecessary legal questions and issues when it does happen.</p>

[jay_poel]

<p>So what was the outcome Sera?</p>

[William Michael]

<p>Good question.</p>

<p> </p>

[sera]

<p>Sorry I've been out of touch on here!<br>

What happened is I received an email back that only said "let me know if you need anything else" with an attached signed Cancellation Agreement. I had emailed her the Cancellation Agreement & she printed it out, signed it, scanned it, & emailed it to me & I accepted that. I never spoke with her about it (she never returned my phone call, & it may be a sensitive subject to talk about so I didn't call her again).<br>

I kept the deposit & stated in my cancellation agreement that I would be keeping it. Honestly, if they would have let me know it was canceled, I probably would have given them at least part of their deposit back. I would have appreciated some type of "humanity" in their email to me (they didn't even say my name, just "let me know if you need anything else" & that's it). But its fine, they may be really upset about the whole situation.<br>

This is the only out of town couple I've ever had (I've always had clients who are somewhat local, even if the wedding was far away, I've always been able to meet with the couple). Plus it was just them with one of their friends & it was only about a 2 hour time frame that they needed me. It was a very unique situation.<br>

I went about this the way I did because of the short time frame I had to get everything cleared up. I am changing my contract to help avoid this in the future. Thank you everyone for all your help!</p>

[ianivey]

<p>Thanks for returning to give us the conclusion to the story, Sera. We appreciate it! Sorry it wasn't a more pleasant exchange. I imagine it was even less pleasant for them, so I think you're right to give them the benefit of the doubt.</p>