Leica M body prism separation?

[jared_shen]

<p>Hey,<br>

I'm buying my first Leica, and I'm torn between a well used beater M4 that has been CLA'd for $400, or a early double stroke BGN M3 from KEH for $400.</p>

<p>I have heard that the M3's prism can separate, screwing up your viewfinder, how common is this?<br>

<br />Does the M4 separate too?</p>

<p>Any comments on the M3 vs M4?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

[nomad_.]

<p>I went for an M2 instead of an M3, mainly to get the viewfinder with 35mm framelines - M3's widest framelines are for 50mm. Either way, I don't think I could have got along with the double stroke advance lever. If I wasn't willing, or able, to put a bit more cash towards it, I'd probably choose the M4 out of the two you mention - for the aforementioned reasons, and because I assume the M3 hasn't had a CLA. In other words, I'd take a CLA'd beater with 35mm framelines and a single stroke lever - but I'd rather spend a bit more and get something with the same features, but in better cosmetic condition.</p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>The M4 has 35mm frame lines while the M3 don't got them. Double wind versus single wind is neither here nor there. I wouldn't think too much of the possibility of prism separation. Better to concentrate on <em>what is known</em>: that the M4 has had a CLA (recent, I assume) and that $400 is a most reasonable price.</p>

[jeff_guthrie]

<p>The prisms in all the old Ms can separate, but it's not a common issue. I can see traces of it in my M4, but it's not a troublesome issue to me, and probably won't be for several more years. By that time I'll send it in and get it fixed.<br>

I prefer the M4 over the M3 because it has 35mm frame lines, the film can be loaded while walking, and the rewind crank is much faster than the knob on the M3. I also prefer the single-stroke action, which is faster than the old dual-stroke cameras.</p>

[paul_wheatland]

<p>I have and use a beater M3 from 1954. The prism is perfect with spectacular rangefinder optics, the double stroke works but is slightly irritable( it needs two complete strokes and a third slight nudge stroke). frame spacing is fine, shutter is great, collapsible Summicron is fine. I actually got caught in the rain taking pictures at a Steam Tractor Show event in PA and just kept on shooting. Camera was fine as was I and the images were as expected.</p>

[john_boyle3]

<p>I have an M4 that I bought new in 1967. After about 15 years some bubbles developed along the bottom of the prism. The viewfinder was replaced with an M2 finder, with the M4 frames, and there have been no problems since. I also have a 1958 M2 that has never had any problems. It seems that the issue of prism separation is very random and I wouldn't worry about it.</p>

<p>Both the M3 and M4 are well made cameras and your choice should be based on what frame lines you prefer as well as on the condition of the individual bodies. </p>

[stindphoto]

<p>I just picked op a user M2 - bought from the most respected dealer here in Denmark. I inspected four M2s - all with warranty - three of them showed clearly signs of prism separation when looking at the prism from the front side of the cameras. Two where hanging in the slow speeds...<br>

Just check! But it can be fixed or the rangefinder upgraded later if you need more frame lines. Upgrade only applies to M2/M4. Good luck and tell us about your experiences! Film is great ;-)</p>

[jared_shen]

<p>It seems, I should lean towards the M4.<br>

I think both of these cameras I'm looking at are quite cheap because the Viewfinder's have issues, such as dimming, or being "not perfect". Which is why I'm quite worried about separation. Is saving the money and buying such a camera worth it? Or should I splurge the extra.. $200+ dollars for a better condition one?<br>

So the M4's viewfinder can be changed? How much would something like that cost?</p>

<p>But I can't really avoid this because I'm a college student on a part time job budget. Leica's really aren't student friendly haha. But I'm really excited to try to get back into film(film was fun when I was a kid, I hope it still holds today after using digital for the longest time)</p>

[stindphoto]

<p>Newer finders with the same magnification as the M2/M4 can be retrofitted by Leica - but probably not cheap. I believe independant repairers do it as well. I mentioned my recent experiences with the M2 bodies bacause the M2 is a later camera than the M3. It seems that the M2 is the cheapest entry to the Leica Ms. <br>

With the prices you mention you really cant go wrong. Let your preferred focal length decide. There isn't much to loos - and you can have the camera checked/upgraded/fixed later when you have saved for it. </p>

 

[mukul_dube]

<p>Jared, perhaps you should do what Peter suggests: buy what you can easily afford and, if you are comfortable working with what you get, spend money later on having it made "as new". I would not recommend an expensive finder upgrade when you can buy an M6 for about as much money. Had I been in your place, I'd have gone for the M4. An old camera with a CLA is always to be preferred to one without.<br>

Peter, my experience is that M2 and M3 cost about the same. When it was introduced, the M2 was indeed cheaper than the M3: but things seem to have evened out by now. We should not forget that many more M3s were made than M2s.</p>

[seth_lord]

<p>Jared<br>

Do be careful when looking at an M4 priced at $400 which is alleged to have had a CLA. It just seems soooo cheap! <br>

I had my M4 CLA'd by Sherry Krauter and what with new shutter curtains, and all the things that go into the refurbishment of something that old, it cost a few hundred $.<br>

Check out the reputable shops on the net to get an idea of current M4 prices. Even without a CLA by an expert like Krauter you will find that they are priced at much more than $400.<br>

Keep in mind the old saying: If it seems too good to be true ........................<br>

The M4 btw is as good as they say it is.<br>

best<br>

Dan</p>