First time as 2nd shooter - please throw me some tips

[oofoto]

<p>I've hung around this forum for many a year on and off so i know how it works and how great the advice can be and also how honest and brutal it can be from a bunch of talented pros. Respect to all on the forum.<br>

So here's how it goes, a pro photog friend of mine offered up a chance to 2nd shoot a wedding this saturday. I like her work, she's seen some of mine so I thought I'd take the bait. It's not a paid gig as 2nd but good experience IMO.<br>

I've never shot a wedding and probably never will but the idea of 2nd shooter appeals, seems less pressure, no formals etc.<br>

So all I'm after from you guys is what you might expect from your 2nd shooter and then any tips and must have 2nd shooter shots.<br>

Nothing too heavy here about not blowing the whites and panda eyes. I'm comfortable in the knowledge the client loves the pros work and she doesn't use flash at all(!). I for one will interested to see all the days coverage without flash. I don't own a flash, sold them as i didn't use them. Please lets not make this thread about flash.<br>

I'm shooting a 5D with a bunch of primes. She's a Nikon shooter.<br>

Thanks for any great tips.</p>

[mitch_w1]

<p>My philosophy is simple when second shooting, and what I'd want from any photog second shooting for me: Be where the primary photog isn't. That is, don't shadow the primary photog and get the same photos. When she is shooting the formals you should be shooting candids of the people waiting their turn, or posing them in smaller groups. Or perhaps this is the time you'll be asked to shoot reception room details or guest candids. My point is that you will be the most value by getting photos the primary photog would otherwise have missed. Chances are there will be times when you'll both be shooting the same subject, like the ceremony. That's when you position yourself in a completely different position to capture different angles and perspectives. Again, capturing images the primary is unable to. You might also consider shooting in different focal lengths as the primary so that the client has a variety of looks. If the primary is shooting the ceremony with a long lens you can go short and wide. Have fun!</p>

[peter_cohen]

<p>Great advice from Mitch. My wife and I shoot together and follow the suggestions above. We tend to shoot what we're best at ... she's better with candid people shots, I'm a little better at wide-angle environmental types of shots. Communication before and during the event is key! Work as a team, not competitors.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>I would think working as a team is a given. In fact, I would say that while you might be able to pick up some tips from this forum, you should ask the primary for an in depth set of instructions about what, how and why you should shoot.</p>

<p>For instance, you say you won't have to shoot formals. One of the things a second is sometimes used for is as back up shooter for formals. Maybe your primary isn't going to want this, maybe she is. But you won't know until you ask her. This is one example which can be applied the whole day long.</p>

<p>Another example--some primary photographers use a second as if the second was the primary, so you have another pretty complete set of images of the same wedding--but from a different eye.</p>

<p>You need to find out what the primary wants a second shooter for.</p>

<p>Otherwise, if given no instructions, the only thing to do is just stay out of the primary's field of view, watch what she does and don't do exactly the same thing, as mentioned above. Hopefully, you won't have to resort to cluelessly shooting without purpose, though. Talk to her now.</p>

[oofoto]

<p>Great responses so far. Thanks and keep them coming :)</p>

[cjogo]

<p>After all my years in weddings -- not sure I could cover, as a 2nd , without flash. Certainly not as a primary. Depends how candid you are supposed to be engaging the subjects. If you can move your people to favorable light <> maybe you could pull it off. I would never be able to hire a 2nd shooter without some flash making the exposure correct. Would be nice to find clients : that would not be so particular .</p>

<p>It takes considerable of time to ratio flash -- especially manual exposure and manual flash -- for a all day event > I can see where it would be a lot more fun.... but, would not welcome the post work to save the image.</p>

<p>My second shooter uses a hand meter and the one camera / one zoom approach. Her RAW images are pretty spot on..and commands $125 per hour.</p>

[mark_harrington1]

<p>Instead of asking what you should do, why not ask how to avoid conflict. First establish the basics with the primary. Ask how they would like to use you to their best ability. If they are used to working with second shooters they will know what you need to do. Secondly, synchronize your cameras so the time and date are the same as the primary photogs, use a unique file identifier for your images (ex. MAH_0876.NEF) - this will make post production easier and you can quickly sort out your images from the others. I use the second photographer to capture the men getting ready, candid shots of the venue and details, table shots and other related images. I generally follow the bride around during the reception, so a second shooter should be getting some of the other activities such as guests reactions during the boquet toss, first dance or whatever. Don't try to take pictures during the formals, perhaps act as an assistant checking to make sure posing looks good and hair is in place, arranging the people per the primary's wishes. Trying to grab a shot or two during the formals will cause confusion, some of the people will look at you and some at the primary photograher - not good! Try to match whenever possible the exposure range of the primary, for example don't shoot at ISO 1600 when the primary shoots everything at 400 otherwise the apparent difference could result in a mismatch of look/feel and quality. Try to white balance using the same target or technique if possible (expodisc, etc.). If the primary shoots raw, you shoot raw, if they shoot JPG you shoot jpg. The object is not to provide a completely different look or style, but rather to fill in the shots unattainable by the primary or to compliment the primary's work. Once you have taken all of the requisite shots asked by the primary, use the remaining time to practice different techniques for your personal development. Remeber, you are there to compliment, not compete with the primary photographer. After a few second shooter gigs, you'll have the experience and confidence to be the primary.</p>

[neilambrose]

Well, I'm going to give you different advice.

 

I'd say forget about your flash. If she doesnt use one then it's unlikely she'll expect you to use one. So it might be more

interesting to see what you can do without it. And if the primary doesn't use flash then there might be nothing worse from

her point of view than having a second who is popping flash at everyone while she's looking for subtle candids.

 

In terms of how to work: don't photograph everything. Take your time. Look for moments, not people. Compose everything

carefully. Aim to work in a slow but structured way, and shoot for a high keep rate. If you concentrate on the process

(rather than just blatting everything in sight which is what most second shooters tend to do) then you could end up with

useful results.

 

There are different opinions on the necessity of flash. Personally I use mine rarely and don't feel it's a problem.

[oofoto]

<p>'Look for moments not people'<br>

That I think is what I will take with me tomorrow. Thanks Neil.<br>

On the flash front, as I said I don't own a flash, she is not using flash and doesn't expect me to either. If it had been a flash gig I wouldn't have offered. I know how to look for light.<br>

My camera is time sync'd with the atomic clock. I'd expect a pro's to be also. File ID's not a problem, she's Nikon, I'm Canon. I shoot only RAW (don't know how to shoot JPEG ;) ) She shoots both apparently. The agreement is I will do a quick cull of my shots post and provide both RAW and TIFF/JPEG on DVD.<br>

Thanks for all the advice thus far :)</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Paul--I would not assume a pro's camera is time synced to an atomic clock. Mine aren't. However, it is easy to adjust capture times using software like Lightroom, so it isn't a big deal. I assume you got your instructions from her?</p>

[cjogo]

<p>Yikes >> Atomic Clocks ? My 20d seems to have missed that one in the menu :-) Splitting atoms must be on the newer model</p>

[leslie_pattison]

<p>What to say, that hasn't already been said? But no flash - yikes!!!</p>

<p>First of all, if you have missed the formal client/photographer discussions, have a word with your friend & get her ideas for every part of the sessions. Say you want to match to her style as much as you can & this will be a crutch for your own inexperience. Also it's a good technique for the future, as well as buttering up the primary photographers that may ask for your service in the 'paying' future.</p>

<p>What's the schedule that you will follow? For example, will you be at the church/office talking pics of the guests as they arrive, while your friend is at the bride's house/flat?</p>

<p>Think of the plan that reflects organization, rather than you flitting around. Plus visit the church & reception hall before the day, at least once. To know your route & try & see inside for good angles. Take some photos & see how noisy they are & figure out how to get the better quality now - not fiddling around with your camera in front of the guests.</p>

<p>Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but if you reflect badly on your friend's professionalism - imagine her bad looks.</p>

<p>In some weddings, if they have loads of kids, they pull the kids away & give them a clown to enjoy with. When I'm the 2nd, I do this part. Have to be good with kids though.</p>

<p>The photos that most people buy (my opinion) are those with faces smiling to the camera with clothing details in order. So if you see a collar over the jacket, make a gentle comment & do it with a smile too. Keep the subjects in a good mood. Joking with them heightens their emotion, but no sarcasm.</p>

<p>Lastly, have some business cards of your friend's, just in case the people ask. Don't say you will work for them, but you work via your friend. Not to push the cards on them. Only if they ask.</p>

<p>Good luck & remember, we all started with that first one! </p>