Choosing a Graflex

[terry_evans3]

<p>Hello,<br>

I am shopping for a Graflex camera as an affordable entry into large format. Is there any particular models I should look for, or stay away from? How about the lenses, which are best? Is the Graflex Optar 135mm very good? Also, are the lenses interchangeable? Thanks for your help.<br>

Terry</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Graflex is a slr camera with removeable lenses; Graflex is also the company too.</p>

<p>Thus Graflex camera can be the Graflex camera model; or a camera made by Graflex camera company too!</p>

<p>You probably mean a Graphic or Crown Press camera; since you mentioned the 135mm Optar</p>

<p>There are also other graflex cameras</p>

<p>Most all Graflex slr cameras have a screw in barrel lens; with no movements. These are in 2x3, 3x4 and 5x7 models. You can use a different lens; but you have to rig up one with the same screw in threads. These cameras have a following for portrait work.</p>

<p>A 4x5 Speed Graphic is very common press camera; it has a focal plane shutter so you can use any lens. A Chrown Graphic has no focal plane shutter; the body is less deep; it weights less too.</p>

<p>A 3x4 speed or chrown graphic "looks" like a 4x5 model; so beware that Ebay buy my have you buying a camera with a weirder film format; ie less supported.</p>

<p> </p>

[terry_evans3]

<p>Sorry, I am referring to the Graphic 4x5.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>A 4x5 Graphic can be a great low cost starter camera; they are very robust and were made in vast numbers; ie 1912 to 1973 if one includes the super graphic of 58 to 73.</p>

<p>These cameras at one time were the backbone of press work; ie shot the Hindenburg crash; the flag at Iwo Jima; the bulk of all LIFE covers before the mid 1960's.</p>

<p>Photo.net has two camps;</p>

<p>some folks want LF to make a giant negative;</p>

<p>others too want a camera with boatloads of movements that can be tied in a knot/pretzel for corrections.</p>

<p>The issue is if your goal is movements; you need a lens with coverage and a body that can move a lot too. A press camera is a poorer choice for movements; it has less or none. A press camera cannot accept some LF lenses with a giant rear end either.</p>

<p>The Buying issue is more like your first bike; folks who preach movements will parachute into this thread and have you buying a 15 speed bike with silk tires that costs 2 to 7 thousand.</p>

<p>The 4x5 Speed is more like a trusty Schwinn bike with one speed that last forever; and costs little. YOU might NOT even like LF thus a simple 1 speed bike offers a decent starter rig; and if you do not like it; you can sell it with little loss.</p>

<p>Most all LF shots ever done have no movements at all; but here on photo.net amateurs preach it as a prime goal.</p>

<p>You can buy a low cost 4x5 Graphic or even 4x5 rail camera with lens for a few hundred bucks' then in a year buy a better rig once you figure out more what your goals are.</p>

<p>HERE I have both types of cameras' but use the press cameras more; other folks here are the opposite!</p>

<p>A Tessar lens formula 127mm or 135mm Lens really allows no movements on a 4x5 camera</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p><a href="http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/graphic-models.html">http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/graphic-models.html</a></p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>I have a Crown Graphic- no focal plane shutter- side range finder-drop bed-minimal front movements model, and I love it. It's in mint condition, and it's never failed me. Kelly's right about movements, I think; for anyone interested in a press-type camera, they're a very low priority utility. I think the Super Graphic is the top of the line, with an all metal body, top range finder, rotating back, and fast lens/shutter combination. I also have a Graflex SLR with a focal plane shutter, like the ones on the Speed Graphic press cameras, and mine works just fine, and allows the use of barrel (non-shuttered) lenses, which are far less expensive than lenses in shutters, as a rule. My Crown was my first LF camera, and I still have it, and use it, and love it. Good luck!</p>

 

[robert_meyer3]

<p>I have been using a 4x5 Super Graphic with a 135mm Optar since the early eighties. The camera is versatile since it has a Grafloc back. That means you can switch in roll film backs in 6x6,6x7, and 6x9 formats, as well as 70mm. You can also use 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 and 4x5 Polaroid backs (if you can find the film). In the old days you could also use film packs. You can focus using the ground glass, or with the range finder. You can compose on the ground glass, with the optical viewfinder, or with the wire viewfinder. You can use a button to electronically trip the shutter, or use a cable release. You can get interchangeable cams so you can use different lenses with the rangefinder (if you can find the cams). The shortest lens you can use is a 90mm (with the drop bed), the longest is a 15" Telephoto. You also have limited rises and falls, and limited swings. I also have a few Speed Graphic versions that let you use barrel lenses without shutters, using the built-in focal plane shutter. The Speed Graphics tend to be heavier than the Super Graqphic. I like both types, but use the Super the most (it was my first Graflex). I've certainly shot several hundred shots with the Super.</p>

[dhbebb]

<p>Good advice above - models to look for are "Pacemaker" in eiher Crown (no focal-plane shutter) or Speed (with shutter) forms. This series started in IIRC 1947 and has the Graflok back which will accept rollfim and instant-picture backs as well as 4x5 sheet-film holders. The previous "Anniversary" model does not do this. Speed/Crown Graphics, as noted, do not offer a lot of movements but do have the tilt movement which is really important in landscape work to maximise effective depth of field. They do not have any swing movement but you will not miss this away from the studio. The Super Graphic was the last model made and does have more movements but it is rare and relatively expensive.<br>

The 3 1/4" x 4 1/4" size is totally obsolete in sheet film, Graphics in this size are very cheap and are good to use with rollfilm backs, since they have bigger lens panels than the 2 1/4 x 3 1/4" size, which makes fitting modern lenses easier, also they have longer bellows. Graphics in general are lightweight for their size, can be closed with normal lenses still fitted and are compact. The 135 Optar lens is OK, allows no movements and is hard to find without heavy scratches - the glass was soft and old-time press guys liked to clean lenses wih the end of their neckties.</p>

[f_ph1]

<p>What Kelly said.</p>

[dan_fromm2]

<p>David, the Graflok back was introduced in 1949 and was an option on all Graphics but the Century, which has an integral Graflok. Graflok backs were offered for retrofitting; older Graphics with a Graflok back sometimes turn up. Thing is, it isn't safe to assume that a Pacemaker Graphic has a Graflok back. Since some were sold with Graflex (as in SLR) backs, it isn't even safe to assume that a Pacemaker Graphic has a Graphic (spring) or Graflok.</p>

<p>I shoot 2x3 Graphics, have had only minor difficulties fitting modern lenses. Comments that follow apply to them, not to 3x4 or 4x5 Graphics. And they're more for you, David, than for Terry.</p>

<p>I greatly dislike the front shutter release, the "paddle" is lens-specific, and never use it. In addition, the front shutter release makes attaching a board with a #1 shutter difficult. Removing the front shutter release, cable and all, is easy and solves that problem. </p>

<p>Lenses with large rear cells, e.g., 35/4.5 Apo-Grandagon, 58/5.6 Grandagon, 80/2.8 Planar (I'm not sure this is true of all versions), can't be popped on the front standard 'cos the rear cell is too large to pass through it. I mount them by unscrewing the rear cell from the shutter; attaching board, shutter, and front cell to the front standard; removing the focusing panel; and screwing the rear cell back into the shutter from the rear. The last step can be a bit fiddly.</p>

<p>A very few modern lenses have rear cells so large that they won't clear the gate and can't be attached from behind. I'm aware of two, 53/4.5 Biogon and 210/5.6 Zircon, that initially appeared suitable for a 2x3 Graphic.</p>

<p>Re long bellows (Speed Graphic) vs. short (Crown, Century). Speeds have a longer minimum flange-to- film distance than Crowns, also longer extension. In the case of 2x3s, the shortest commonly-used lens that covers 2x3 and will focus to infinity on a Speed is the 58/5.6 Grandagon; the Crown/Century can use the 35/4.5 Apo-Grandagon, 47 SA, and so on. At the long end the Crown/Century fall a little short. One really needs one of each.</p>

<p>To get back on track, Terry, the 4x5 Crown Graphic's minimum flange-to-film distance is 52.4 mm, the 4x5 Pacemaker Speed's is 66.7. If you've liked lenses shorter than normal, a Crown may make better sense for you. </p>

<p>I started with a 2x3 Speed in part because I thought I wanted to use inexpensive lenses in barrel. I quickly found that I wanted to use electronic flash. The Speed's focal plane shutter won't sync with electronic flash. In addition, the Pacemaker Speed's slowest timed shutter speed, 1/30, is too fast. My solution was a Polaroid MP-4 Copal Press shutter, cheap because it has no diaphragm and is generally useless, and adapters to hang lenses in barrel in front of it. The adapters' costs vary with size.</p>

[terry_evans3]

<p>Well, I ended up buying a Pacemaker Crown with Xenar lens. I hope this was a good choice. It is in beautiful condition, with original case, six film holders, and original bulb flash. It was from the son of the original owner. He also included all of his Dad's film developing tanks and equipment. Tanks from 35mm through 4x5.<br>

Does this model have the hood on the back for ground glass focusing? He didn't show it open. How else would you focus with just the view finder? <br>

Anyone have this model, and was it a good choice. I guess the condition sold me.<br>

Thanks everyone.<br>

Terry</p>

[terry_evans3]

<p>I want to use this on my Gitzo CF tripod and Markins ball head. Does anyone make a camera plate so I can mount it on my ball head?<br>

Can I use this camera for portraits, with the right lens, and shots of old churches and barns?<br>

How sharp is the Xenar lens?<br>

I thought about starting with either Tmax 400, or Ilford 400. Will either be a good choice?<br>

I already have a Sekonic meter, Epson V750, and Epson 3880 printer. With the developing tank included, all I need is chemicals. This is going to be a lot of fun!<br>

Regards,<br>

Terry</p>

[dan_fromm2]

<p>Um, Terry, Graphics help those who help themselves.</p>

<p>Charles Monday gave you the best advice in this thread, unfortunately wasn't quite explicit or blunt enough. He's a nice person. I'm not, so I'll tell you again. Go to www.graflex.org and read the FAQs there before asking another question that's been answered many times already.</p>

<p>photo.net has its virtues but it isn't the best place to look for advice/information on large format in general or Graflex products in particular. www.graflex.org is the best around for Graflex products. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/ is the best in English for LF in general. For those who read French, IMO http://www.galerie-photo.info/forum/ is a bit better. </p>

[terry_evans3]

<p>Dan, yes Charles is a great guy. He has helped me with my medium format and film processing questions, too. I always get extremely good information from this site, and most are happy to help. Then, there's the occasional do a search response, which I don't mind.</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>The Crown has a standard 1/4-20 tripod socket on the bottom and on the left side. Check camera stores for a plate that will fit your ball head and has a 1/4-20 mount screw.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Can I use this camera for portraits, with the right lens, and shots of old churches and barns?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No! Being the Crown was designed to be a Press camera only images that will be printed in newspapers or magazines will come out, all others will be blank. :D</p>

<blockquote>

<p>How sharp is the Xenar lens</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Put it on the camera, load some film, and ask it.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>I thought about starting with either Tmax 400, or Ilford 400. Will either be a good choice?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Fomapan is a thin emulsion film and will loose shadow detail where Kodak and Ilford will not. I haven't tried Fuji B&W as it is not as readily available where I shop. You can't go wrong with Kodak or Ilford films.</p>

<p>HC110 or Xtol or D76 or ???; rapid fixer; wash aid; wetting agent; 13 thumbs and a few hours.</p>

[terry_evans3]

<p>Charles, you are a hoot! Your No! to portraits scared me, until I saw the smiley face. Thanks for all you do on this forum. Regards.</p>

[dan_fromm2]

<p>Terry, Charles, who really is a nice guy, told you to find the answers yourself. As I said, at times he's not direct enough. If you don't try to help yourself, your Graphic will refuse to cooperate with you. And believe me, they can be very stubborn.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Some Crowns and Speed 4x5's I have handled or owned have a 3/8-16 thread on the side socket; and often there is a 3/8-16 to 1/4-20 bushing there and you do not even know about it;thus you just assume it is only 1/4-20.</p>

<p> I had one that went underwater that on a rebuild with the leather off I noticed the side socket was rusted; but the inner 1/4-20 was brass too; ie the insert was brass; the part in the wood 3/8-16 and steel.</p>

<p>Then I checked out several of my other 4/5 speeds too an they have 3/8-16 on the side socket; with a 1/4-20 insert too.</p>