Nikon D7000 and Pentax K5

[ivo_miesen]

<p>Last month I had the choice between buying another K20D and the K7D. I settled for the K20D. One of my main reasons was that I need to confirm the choice of another focussing point in the K7D while with the K20D I can select it with one button, without even taking the camera of my eye. A non-argument for those only using the centre point, I know. But I change the focussing pint very often, especially when shooting sports and concerts.</p>

[mountainvisions]

<p>Javier...I disagree.</p>

<p>The K20D isn't superior in my opinion. It's inferior at lower ISO, and I frankly don't care about higher ISO enough to care that the K-7 is just barely adequate as a successor.<br>

<br />Everything else about the K-7 is the camera most people asked for in some form or another on these very forums when we were throwing out our wish list.</p>

<p>So for me, absolutely superior image rendering at 100-400 over both the K20D and the competition, as well as just a marvel of a camera body and feature set make the K-7 an extremely good camera. There is absolutely 110% no way in hell I would give up my K-7 for a K-x.</p>

<p>If this was the film era, the K-7 would be the sort of camera Pentaxians would have nocturnally moist dreams about. It is far and away the best camera Pentax has ever made. It's only limited flaw was it simply was about equal to the K20D in RAW capture above ISO 640, and perhaps about 1/3-1/2 stop inferior to it above ISO 1600.</p>

<p>As a lot of people have noted, most of the biggest complainers about the K-7 high ISO capture are JPEG shooters. I realize there are a lot of reasons to shoot an SLR and not all of them have to do with post processing control, but too me anyway, if you buy a DSLR you should be shooting RAW and not 8 bit compressed JPEGs. Unfortunately, it seems most of the people who have been ardent complainers about the K-7 high ISO are JPEG shooters.</p>

<p>Again, I'm not saying you have to shoot RAW if you don't want to, but I am saying these cameras are designed to produce the highest quality images from a RAW file. So with that in mind, it's really not fair to say the K-7 is a colossal let down.</p>

<p>As far as the K-x, it's really not that uncommon for a lower end camera to supercede a higher end camera in noise control and/or resolution.</p>

<p>Examples...the K200D had ISO 3200 while the K10D did not, I'm guessing the K200D also fixed some of the K10D banding issues since I never saw many complaints about it.</p>

<p>the Nikon D90 was superior to the Nikon D200 and D300 in noise control. Both of those cameras were very much like the difference in K-x and K-7 in terms of features and pricing.</p>

<p>I'm sure there are many more examples, but the fact is that the digital era isn't as neat and orderly as the film era where we had a very slow and calculated caste systmem of cameras that never infringed upon the other cameras spec level. In the digital era often lower end cameras are released before the flagship is updated and the result is a mixing of classes where the lower level camera might actually be better spec'd or offer superior imaging to the high spec'd camera, at least for a short period of time.</p>

<p>Finally, the K-x is superior to the K-7 at higher ISO, but the K-7 is superior to the K-x at lower ISO. As I've noted, I'd much rather have the K-7 sensor than the K-x sensor for my needs, but I do understand how others might want a K-7 body with a K-x sensor. Different types of photography require different tools, I get that! I'm just not so sure it's fair to consider the K-7 a dud, clearly quite a few of us actually do love the camera.</p>

[mountainvisions]

<blockquote>

<p>Last month I had the choice between buying another K20D and the K7D. I settled for the K20D. One of my main reasons was that I need to confirm the choice of another focussing point in the K7D while with the K20D I can select it with one button,</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Actually, not true.</p>

<p>I covered this in my review on photo.net of the K-7.</p>

<p>With the K-7 in select mode, and with firmware 1.1 (i believe) you simply select the focus point.</p>

<p>With this firmware update the OK button now served as a function button with the 4 way controller reverting to a D-pad for focus selection.</p>

<p>Sadly, you bought an inferior camera without actually verifying your statement which was only true prior to the first K-7 firmware update. </p>

<p>Anyway, as to correct misinformation. If you want to select focus points with the K-7, update firmware, go to appropriate custom function in menu, put camera into select mode, and select away...no more 2 button confirmation!</p>

[mountainvisions]

<blockquote>

<p>You cannot expect to throw it into a swimming pool and expect it to survive, but some light drizzle should not bother it.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>If it can only handle light drizzle I'd be suspect to the quality of the sealing. As noted the E-3 can survive a bucket of water being dumped on it. The K10D (actually GX10 I think) had some guy cover the lens mount and put his camera under a faucet with no ill effects (and yes he was an idiot, but thanks to him being an idiot the rest of us were able to blindly trust our 72 seals and gaskets).</p>

<p>First hand the K20D survived a torrential downpour at my merciless hands, although I wouldn't make it a habbit of shooting in such conditions I was impressed the K20D and DA 50-135mm were completely unharmed over the 45 minute span.</p>

[andrewg_ny]

<p>Ivo, the K-7 has a custom setting so when in 'SEL' mode it generally reverts back to using the 4-way buttons for AF points. There's also an indicator in the viewfinder for whether you're in AF point select mode or not. So if in SEL, you just use the 4-way. If you want to change flash comp in this mode, you hit OK then down then rear e-dial or green button to change comp. If you then press OK or half-press, it reverts to AF point selection mode.</p>

<p>It seems a reasonable compromise to eliminate the extra press for Flash Comp, WB, and drive mode. However I think I wouldn't have minded a third option where you need to hold a button to get the alternate behavior rather than the modal approach so as soon as you release the button it reverts to default.</p>

<p>I think Pentax made some reasonable decisions with the ergonomic changes on K-7 and you gain a dedicated button for ISO. I wish that the RAW button could be customized so that you could use it for bracketing (you lose this vs. K10D/K20D), and while I appreciate the improved access to flash comp, you still need the rear LCD for it--doesn't show in the VF or on top LCD while changing. Not quite there yet.</p>

[jgredline]

<p>Justin, We will have to agree to disagree. Perhaps Pentax should have put in their manual that if we are to shoot past ISO800 in the K-7 to shoot RAW and include a copy of Topaz Denoise V5 with every K-7. I only know what I know. That the K20D is at min a 1/2 stop (closer to a full stop stop) better than the K-7 at high ISO performance and so is the D300s. I do not hear the excuses from D300S owners to shoot RAW, though I am sure there are some. </p>

[mountainvisions]

<p>Andrew, I never liked the quick access. For this reason my camera stays in select mode all the time. I absolutely dislike the ability to accidentally enter a function screen and change settings.</p>

<p>Truthfully, I wish there was a third option too. I would like the OK button to serve as a Fn button via the custom menu in auto and center point focus modes. I'm ok with needing 2 very quick presses to get to my flash comp, afterall if they really wanted to give me rapid flash comp it would be attached to the flash up button.</p>

<p>In my perfect camera the flash up button would also serve as a FEV button. Press for flash up, hold for FEV while spinning a control wheel.</p>

<p>Details like this are precisely the reason I am in charge of camera design and user experience at ACIEL!</p>

[rparmar]

<p>The K7 made sacrifices at high ISO, maybe because how data was pulled off the sensor was completely re-engineered to allow for video functions the K20D does not have. The K-x was engineered after the K-7 and managed to improve on high ISO to a remarkable degree. But it doesn't have the same video resolution. Each camera has its optimised areas, and these are well-discussed.</p>

<p>I am all for critiques and suggestions for improvement, but I don't see what the point is in complaining about them in this way. Everyone should expect that newer models will be "better" in some ways and possibly not in others. The K-7 is missing the nice battery latch the K20D has, and some of the external controls. But it is smaller and lighter. So it goes. Thankfully we can still buy bodies all the way back to the *ist models, so we can get what we want.</p>

<p>Except the perfect camera. That hasn't been made yet. nor will it ever be, because then manufacturers would have nothing to offer in the next product cycle.</p>

[hinman]

<p>When I wake up this morning, I was hilariously happy for a moment in thinking of all the Tamron adaptall-2 investments that I made in <a href="http://www.techtheman.com/search/label/adaptall-2">17/24/24-48/35-80/80-200/200/500</a> that can be used across systems with an adapter. The only thing that I need to check is to confirm if two of my Nikon adaptall-2 adapters have any gimmicks with the D7000. I am not saying that I will be crazy enough to buy it at pre-purchase unless I visit Javier and have lol moments cursing our disappointments with Pentax and with beer. I never call the Pentax service rep lady again for my dead white K-x in CRIS as I will love to replace it with a camera that can last longer as in 2-3 years. </p>

[ivo_miesen]

<p>When I was comparing the K20D and the K7D at the shop I checked the manual, discussed the matter with the salesman (one of the best in the region) and we coudln't find a way around it. It wasn't the only reason to choose the K20D though, there were a number of other reasons, including a few financial ones (a.o. the need to buy new batteries). To put it frankly, I didn't see enough gains in buying the K7D in stead of the K20D to to compensate for the about 400 Euro higher price (price difference + batteries). Besides, I was (and am) entirely satisfied about the K20D.</p>

[hinman]

<p>I researched a bit on the Nikon mounts and here are few links that I visit for information:</p>

 

<ul>

<li><a href="http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Camera-Lenses/index.page">http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Camera-Lenses/index.page</a> I am quite happy to see lens available. It does not mean that one has to buy $2k lens to be a Nikonian. The 35mm f/1.4 available does not dictate one to buy it but it is comforting to know something in that speed and focal length is available. The Nikon AF 85mm f/1.8 D is priced at $489.95 and I am sure there is an old prime glass that will fill the need.</li>

<li><a href="http://www.dentonimages.com/page.php?id=art100708a">http://www.dentonimages.com/page.php?id=art100708a</a> And I am hoping in the chart of backward compatibility tables, the D7000 will go into the middle row along with D300/D700 that Javier mentions. IF that is the case, lots of old lens in AI, AI-P and AI-S mount are compatible with metering support and I do hope that they flash will do TTL on those lens. This is to be confirmed as we need some Nikonian to clarify for us</li>

<li><a href="http://www.bythom.com/warranty.htm">http://www.bythom.com/warranty.htm</a> and I generally don't enjoy Thomas Hogan predictions but this link offers some detail on Nikon USA warranty. From what I gathered, there are some lens purchase with Nikon that have a 5 year warranty. The longer the better but I don't have a clue as to how the warranty service work in Nikon. I call up Pentax for my <a href="http://www.techtheman.com/2010/08/pentax-k-x-dead-with-memory-card-error.html">dead Pentax white k-x</a> and they simply hung the phone in Custom Service for the day. </li>

</ul>

[mountainvisions]

<p>Hin,<br /><br />if you read some of bythoms service issues with nikon you will feel better.<br /><br />of course this doesn't absolve pentax, it just notes the grass isn't always greener.</p>

[14mm 2.8l]

<p>Alittle advice for you , stay away from import/grey market nikon glass. Nikon is unyeilding in not repairing grey market glass, even for money. They are strict on not supporting/fixing/repairing grey market equiptment in USA.</p>

<p>Heres the Nikon USA glass from B&H. Just Nikon. Rebates right now are for bundles, costy as you have to buy a camera to get deals on lenses. No forms to mail in. Point of sale savings.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ci=274&N=4288584247+4291315846+38">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ci=274&N=4288584247+4291315846+38</a></p>

<p>Click on "kits" on qualifing cameras, like D700, D300s and you'll get a pop up:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ci=274&N=4288584247+4291315846+38"></a></p>

<p>I know you're in love with D7000 specs/price, I say consider D700 too.<br>

Go full frame and see what all the hoopla is about.</p>

<p>I doubt I'll ever buy another aps-c dslr.<br>

So that makes our 22 month old K20D the end of the smaller sensor cameras for me and the wife.</p>

<p>Here's one of my favorite nikon sites, they say October 29th 2010 is D7000 's available for delivery date:</p>

<p><a href="http://nikonrumors.com/2010/09/15/more-nikon-d7000-coverage.aspx">http://nikonrumors.com/2010/09/15/more-nikon-d7000-coverage.aspx</a></p>

<p>Ask you unanswered questions about Nikon gear on Nikon forum here,<br>

Shun the moderator is quite knowedgeable concerning "Nikon"</p>

<p>Where am I at in regards to Nikon ?<br>

Still have D700, my one and only nikon camera I ever owned, bought new 20 months ago</p>

<p>I added all Nikon made lenses and assessories:<br>

8mm 2.8 Circular Fisheye<br>

14-24mm 2.8<br>

28mm 3.5 Shift Ai<br>

35mm 2.8 Shift Ai<br>

55mm 2.8 Macro<br>

70-300mm 4.5-5.6 VR, a killer lens! low cost of admission! Vibration Reduction & optics are a joy! <br>

You should buy one if you buy a D7000 or D700 Nikon !<br>

85mm 1.4 AiS<br>

300mm 2.8 "N" AiS w/1.4 &2x TC. Crazy sharp, with or w/o TC's<br>

Picked up Nikons Lens Scope Converter too, exceptional on 300mm 2.8<br>

Pair of PB-4 Bellows and various Nikon tubes , el nikkors, and other assorted micro optic stuff...</p>

<p> Theres a few other goodies I'm hunting as new in the box "used" AiS glass hits my shopping radar.<br>

Nikon made alot of epic glass since 1977 and its plentiful, thus affordable and with a little effort "mint"<br>

Nikon is fun, but lets face it every one has fun gear thesedays... till it breaks.<br>

I've yet to suffer a failure with Pentax, Nikon, and Canon so it remains all good for me, for now.</p>

<p>Hopefully you K-x will arrive in great shape without an immediate return trip for service.<br>

Sometimes that happens I've read, even with Canikon.</p>

<p> </p>

[hinman]

<p>Lindy, much thanks for the inputs. I am back to drawing white board for few lens in mind. I don't know any of the abbreviations in Nikon, so readers need to bear in mind for my rough models reference</p>

<ul>

<li>Nikon 10-24 f/3.5 -- this can be had < $800, it is a very good lens</li>

<li>Nikon 18-105 VR -- this can be my kit lens with VR as a kit</li>

<li>Nikon 35mm f/1.8 -- this is the best bang for the buck in $199</li>

<li>Nikon 85mm f/1.8 -- I see this < $500</li>

<li>Nikon 100mm f/2.8 Macro -- will try to find old lens equivalent or Sigma 105mm f/2.8 1:1 Macro</li>

<li>Other long lens to be refined as I have many <strong><a href="http://www.techtheman.com/search/label/adaptall-2">Tamron SP adaptall-2 lens</a></strong> to cover as in Tamron SP 80-200 f/2.8, 200mm, 300mm f/2.8 (soon with 300B) and 500mm f/8.0 55BB </li>

</ul>

<p>And Lindy, can you help me to confirm if Tamron SP adaptall-2 lens will work with your D700 or the D7000 with a Nikon adaptall-2 adapter.</p>

[r.t. dowling]

<p>Adaptall2 lenses with the Nikon version of the Adaptall2 adapter will function the same way as a Nikon AI lens. So, assuming that the D7000 will meter with AI lenses, it should also meter with Adaptall2 lenses.</p>

<p>I used to have a Tamron 70-210 Adaptall2, and it worked perfectly on my Nikon N2000. It supported all of the metering modes, including full auto.</p>

[dogbert]

<blockquote>

<p>For instance the Pentax FA 85mm 1.4, often considered the best 85mm, and often cannibalized by Canon shooters who even go so far as to change the mount, is about $1000-1400 used and people complain it is way over priced.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>YMMV by I've been hanging out in the Canon forum since 2003 and I have never heard of a Canon shooter lusting after this Pentax lens. That is not to say it is not a good lens, I just don't understand where this claim comes from. <br>

The Canon 85 f1.2 L is widely regard as an absolutely stellar lens for about $1200 by Canon shooters - read the photozone review - while the Canon 85 f1.8 is also regarded as a great lens at the value end, with people often asking themselves whether to spend 4 times as much for the extra stop and professional L build for the f1.2 version. I have heard of people putting Ziess and Lieca glass on Canon's but to the extent that Pentax glass is sought by Canon shooters it is more at the tinkering end of the market, ie the cheap K, M and A primes.</p>

 

[david_sims4]

<p>It sounds like a bit too much fuss is going on here. Don't get me wrong - I'm very excited about the new launches. But I doubt the K-5 will be inferior to the D7000. Which is good, because I was very impressed when I read about the D7000. However, in a couple of months, I suspect things will remain largely as they have been, although the new models will be a significant improvement for both brands:</p>

<ul>

<li>Nikon will still have better AF than the new Pentax models, but Pentax' AF will be better than it was.</li>

</ul>

<ul>

<li>Nikon has many impressive lenses, but Pentax also has great ones and is a much better value for a complete kit.</li>

</ul>

<ul>

<li>The K5 will likely have better weather sealing than the D7000.</li>

</ul>

<ul>

<li>Both brands will continue to have impressive high ISO performance.</li>

</ul>

<ul>

<li>Pentax will still have superior backward compatibility with older (or even current non-VR) lenses for hand-held shooters.</li>

</ul>

<ul>

<li>Nikon will still be the choice for those who want the option of a Full-Frame sensor on at least one of their bodies.</li>

</ul>

<p>So what's new? Only that users of each brand will have access to a better body than they did last year!</p>

<p>As for video, I'll reserve judgment until I see the specs. I won't be shocked if Nikon is mostly better for video (with AF, for example) with Pentax still having the in-body SR in its court, making the FA31/1.8 a nice video lens, for example.</p>

<p>I see little reason for most people to switch brands. I think each will maintain its strengths, more or less. It's hard for me to imagine replacing the dozen-or-so Pentax lenses I really like and use regularly (from an original K series to current DA* and DA Ltd lenses, with many great ones in between). With my $ investment in lenses being larger than I'd like to admit, I look at the digital bodies as being almost disposable. As much as I like my K-x, 6 months ago I was already planning to replace it this Fall, looking forward to whatever improvements Pentax might offer.</p>

<p>I bought my K-x the second day it was available in a local store, even before most online sites were shipping it. I paid full original price, and it was worth every penny for the ability to use it while prices dropped. When I sell it for about half of what I paid for it I will once again marvel at how well I got my money's worth! And if its replacement is as good as advertised (I don't know if I want the K-r or K-5 yet), I may someday find myself saying the same thing about it!</p>

[tom_kay]

<p>Robin, why do you spread this "Pentax cameras got bigger and more expensive" idea?<br>

The K-r might be a little bit bigger than the K-x by a minute amount.<br>

The K-5 is rumoured to to use the K-7 body dimensions.<br>

Regarding prices: It remains to be seen how the street prices will pan out. Heck, we don't even know the official K-5 price yet.<br>

Not sure what this "bigger & more expensive" business is about.</p>

[rparmar]

<p>I suppose on the expensive side I am still burned by the lens price hike. I was lucky to have what I needed (mostly) before that but others were not. I will (partially) recant if body prices are shown to be significantly different from available information. But this is a thread on an upcoming camera -- speculation is assumed.</p>

[mountainvisions]

<blockquote>

<p>I suppose on the expensive side I am still burned by the lens price hike.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Robin, I challenge you to put together equivalent Nikon and Pentax kits for the same price.</p>

<p>Absolutely impossible. Sure, Pentax lens prices did go up, but they are still well below Nikon for equivalent glass.</p>

<p>It goes without saying, Pentax is still the brand to beat for compact cameras with sealed image stabilized lenses, or compact cameras with image stabilized compact primes.</p>

<p>I think you a jumping the gun a little bit in your disgruntled state. Overall, pentax prices are still very competitive based on quality of system and the fact that despite your claims Nikon doesn't actually still compete with Pentax in many areas.</p>

<p>For my money Pentax is still the travel, adventure, street, and landscape system to beat.</p>

<p> </p>

[miserere_mei]

<blockquote>

<p>For my money Pentax is still the travel, adventure, street, and landscape system to beat.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Ahem. Allow me to disagree on the <em>street</em> part.</p>

[mountainvisions]

<p>I suppose you are talking about the NX10?</p>

<p>OK, let me rephrase that, Pentax is still the SLR system to beat. I suppose if we throw in the ILCs that many of us old timers aren't really to commit to, I might have to change that statement!</p>

[jgredline]

<blockquote>

<p>OK, let me rephrase that, Pentax is still the SLR system to beat</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well justin, We can agree on this. I love my ME SUPERS :)</p>

[hinman]

<p>I may be serving you all as the first guinea pig with D7000 unless K5 has something better to offer such as a retail price below the D7000. It is outrageously competitive and Pentax has LOST my free marketing in my blog. That is it for me with Pentax. My advertising efforts can't even buy me a bag of chips as in $0.85 that I just pony up for my hunger. Darn it, I will blog about nothing and it will serve me better.</p>

<p>My goals is simple. I don't want to suck in on digital for one brand. This is the newest trend that you don't get the best of all things in one brand but each brand offers certain area that is uniquely attractive such as the small size and quality of pentax primes and the SR in body. It is extremely pragmatic with weather sealing.</p>

<p>Then why Nikon now, and why not? The gap is closing on the niches from Pentax. If you think about it, I think Nikon is learning an import thing or two from Pentax on weather sealing in sub-1K cameras, lens backward compatible, video and with AF, horizontal level, 100% viewfinder, 6 fps that beats K7, and many similar things in K7 which includes the lightweight body.</p>

<p> </p>

[ukhov]

<p>-we don't even have k-5 and it all ready bunch of Konican guys keep forum alive with new 56point sensor on D7000! The next is good to ask -whos your dady?Happy friday photographers !</p><div></div>