Developing old exposed Plus-X

[christopher_m]

<p>I found some old exposed, never developed Plus-X film from my grandfather's. It is probably from about 1970. At the time, developing times for old Plus X calls for 5 minutes in HC-110 (dilution B) at 68F, or 10 minutes in dilution H. (I normally use Dillution H) I realize that I need to change developing times to compensate for the age. <br /><br />A few questions:</p>

<ol >

<li>How much longer should I develop the film? I was thinking about an extra 40% or 14 minutes in Dilution H at 68 F? Does that sound reasonable?</li>

<li>Would using dilution B, make a difference with older film?</li>

<li>Is it better to use a colder or warmer temperature to reduce fog?</li>

<li>Plus X from this time period was still ASA 125, right? There is no film speed marking on the film canister.</li>

</ol>

[john_shriver]

<p>Yes, by then it would be ASA 125.<br>

I'd be wary about increasing the developing time much, since you might get clobbered with base fog. Plus, Plus-X can be a bit contrasty.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Surprisingly, when I developed old Plus-X and Tri-X not much younger than yours, I found no real need for any compensation. I was developing in D-76 at a little higher temperature, but not wildly hot.<br /> You could snip off a few frames in a changing bag and try developing them first to see how the regular times work, then increase or decrease time as needed.</p>

<p>Of course, I need to add, that on my film, the exposures were new, while the film was old. That could make quite a difference. I'd still try a few frames first to see.</p>

[christopher_m]

<p>On other threads, people have said that old film looses 1-2 stops of speed. Normally a slower film requires less development. So should older films get less development that originally recommended?</p>

[maderik]

<p>When I've developed old found film, I've typically used about a 40% longer time (i.e. ~1 stop push) but then the shorter dilution B time to limit the fogging. If you want to split the difference, try 20-25% more time (i.e. 6 min in dilution B @ 68F). You should end up with something decently printable/scannable (fog will lower the contrast.)</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Here about 6 years ago I found an old misplaced bulk film loader that I bought in the mid 1960's; that was last used in 1976 in Kansas City with Plus-X. For some odd reason it got mixed up with oddball household items during a move; and was in a box of little used Kitchen items like oddball molds in the Pantry. It was in a box that had accessories and small items for this set of molds. I thought it was long lost until during a de-junk; de-frag of the house I found the old loader.</p>

<p>Anyway; I discarded about two 36 exp rolls worth just in case there the loader had been opened to light; and since the outer might be worse.</p>

<p>I then spooled off about five 36 exp rolls of the asa 125 35mm Plus-X I got in 1976; that expired in 1978.</p>

<p>This film was not all that useable; thus thrown away. I would use it if on a desert island. The film was so fogged that the actual legal asa was about 16 to 32. It was so fogged that in about 2 36 exp rolls; one can find the Kodak film number for plus-x in about a frame or two. Ie the frame numbers and plus-x numbers that were exposed when the film was made now are merged into the films base fog. No matter if I used D76; HC110, Microphen; Rodinal the film was already exposed thus has massive base fog.</p>

<p>The weird thing is I have developed folks Verichrome from 1940's and 1950's that was radically better than that poor bulk roll of Plus-X from 1976.</p>

<p>With MY roll; it is so fogged that the film needs 3 f stops more exposure to get any shadows. Thus one has a film that is as slow as Panatomic-X; but has grain between tri-x and 2475 recording film; *AND* one has a limited dynamic range too.</p>

<p>This roll was at my summer house in the South; it thus saw temperatures probably in the 77 to 80F region during the summers; since only one dinky AC unit is on.</p>

<p>

What one has to expose 30 to 40 year "old plus-x film" depends on its storage history. The stuff that I have frozen from that era has maybe 0 to 1 stops loss in speed and is excellent. The lost and now found Plus-X bulk roll I have is really garbage. Even when exposed at an EI of 16 to 32 the shots now have shadow detail; but one has way less dynamic range.</p>

<p>

I you have several rolls and they were kept in the same place; they tend to degrade about the same. A test with one roll will help you shoot the second one better.</p>

<p>With a long roll; I would expose at an EI of 32 or 64; and develop say 0 to 20 percent more.</p>

<p>

There are too many variables; it is like asking if an OLD jug of milk; can of beer, bottle of paint is good ; without knowing how it was stored.<br>

</p>

<p>Many folks on this thread seem to think that a magical Hogwarts developer or time will erase the base fog. With time the old film really is already exposed; some due to cosmic rays; other due to temperature. Developer does not "erase" the first exposure. Old film is already exposed. It is exposed little if stored in a freezer and a slower asa. It is exposed a lot if it was in a hotter area for a long time; or saw gasses like coal gas; or certain chemicals.</p>

<p>

Decades Old film that was poorly stored is already exposed; no magical brew erases a double exposure. Since the older film is already fogged; one exposes more to get details above the fog.<br>

</p>

<p>It is like having to yell LOUD to order a beer at a wild football game; there is a lot of noise. By the same token; during wild loud football game one cannot record a massive dynamic range of a concert; the tiny flute solo will; be lost in the crowds yelling.</p>

<p>If your film is 35mm 36 exp ; you can just shoot 6 frames and under total darkness cut the film; but leave some still coming out the cassette. You develop this short roll to get feedback/</p>

<p>This question has real no exact answer. That film roll might have been in a cars glove box for 6 years and and it is now horrible. It might to be in a house in Alaska; and its average temp on the colder side than my poor roll.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>With old found film that is already exposed with a camera; the decades worth of sitting around time has the film's base fog rise by an unknown amount; since the storage conditions are unknown.</p>

<p>The added base fog is really another exposure.</p>

<p>One has the original exposure say in 1970; plus 40 years of added exposure ie base fog.</p>

<p>A developer does not say "let us develop the 1970 exposure and not the base fog" it develops it all. The developer acts on both exposures. ie one has a double exposure.<br>

<br /> If by accident or being conservative the old film was exposed well; ie some over exposure; then the 40 year old details can be way above base fog.</p>

[cj8281]

<p>I recently developed an <a href="../black-and-white-photo-film-processing-forum/00X1EE">old roll of Panchromatic 120 film</a>. I used these posts to come up with the solution that I used. <a href="http://community.livejournal.com/foundfilm/3045.html">http://community.livejournal.com/foundfilm/3045.html</a> is the first post and <a href="http://community.livejournal.com/foundfilm/16982.html">http://community.livejournal.com/foundfilm/16982.html</a> shows the clip test. I used HC110 at a dilution of 10% at 37.9ºf. I came up with the time that I used based on what the clip test showed. Best of luck to you. Please post what you did and how it turned out.</p>

[maderik]

<blockquote>

<p><em>A developer does not say "let us develop the 1970 exposure and not the base fog" it develops it all. The developer acts on both exposures. ie one has a double exposure.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>No, but the base fog is a very different and hopefully lower exposure from the original. What you want to do is to use a higher contrast, non-compensating development scheme to minimize the development of the base fog exposure. Just as you use can use highly dilute HC-110 as a compensating developer to give additional development of the highlights, using the shortest time, highest concentration HC-110 with a small push to increase contrast will give least development. </p>