Camera Choice Help! Canon 5d?

[melissa_fogg]

<p>OK, so I really want to get a higher end, more professional type camera. I've been looking at the Canon 5d Mark II-- but right now it would be a little tough to swing-- although i have not completely given up on the idea-- I check amazon about everyday for used ones at affordable prices lol. But I have just started with the idea of possibly buying its predecessor the Canon 5d. I have had people wanting me to do photos for them and i feel like the consumer level camera I have (canon t1i) does not deliver the professional quality that I want to present to people. I really would like to go for a full frame camera-- especially since they perform significantly better under low light conditions. I have found the 5d (body only) right now (used) for -$1000, whereas the 5d mII for double that and then some (body only). I'll be investing in a better lens as well, i'm looking at the 70-200 F4L-- but I'm just looking for some guidance on if the price tag with the 5dmii is really worth it or if the original 5d would be just as fine. One more factor: I am trying to establish myself so that this can become my career-- eventually.</p>

[alan_bryant1]

<p>The T1i is capable of excellent image quality. The 5D2 can beat it, especially in low light, but the difference is quite small. You might be better off putting the money in lenses.</p>

<p>The 5D mk 1 is a good camera, but is a couple generations older than the T1i and so is actually inferior to it in several respects - the LCD isn't as good, it lacks live view, has no video capability, etc.</p>

<p>If you're looking for a larger camera that looks more professional, you might consider a 40D / 50D / 7D. Or add a battery grip to the T1i, which will make it larger.</p>

[melissa_fogg]

<p>interesting thank you! I was thinking about a 7D also at one point... so confusing! Too many options! lol Here's an example of a photo I took with my t1i & 50mm 1.8</p><div></div>

[mark_pierlot]

<p>Melissa, it is true that full frame bodies are inherently better at higher ISO's than crop frame bodies. If you're using your camera primarily for available light portraiture, the 5D in either of its incarnations is the way to go.</p>

<p>You don't say what lenses you have, but getting a 5D (or 5DII) and a couple of fast non-L primes (50/1.4 and 85/1.8 or 100/2) would give you superb image quality for relatively little outlay. Buying used, of course, would be even cheaper.</p>

<p>But back to answering your main question. The 5DII has several features the 5D lacks (live view, larger and brighter LCD, automatic sensor cleaning, video, etc.), as well as higher resolution and better high ISO performance. I was faced with the same choice around the time the 5DII was being introduced, and I opted for the newer body. Only you can decide whether it's worth the price difference to you. </p>

[ds_meador]

<p>Melissa,</p>

<p>Nice photo with the T1i and 50 1.8. What do you think that photo lacks that a different camera would provide?<br>

Unless you have a specific difference in mind that a 5D I or II would provide, you're probably better off buying lens(es) first.<br>

You didn't mention what other lenses you already have either.<br>

DS Meador</p>

[john_tran14]

<p>You've had the T1i for just a year or so, it's still too soon to look for an upgrade. If you son't see a specific weakness in your photos, you may not need a new lens either</p>

[mark_pierlot]

<p>Nice shot, Melissa. If there's a problem with it, it has to do with focusing, and not with limitations of your gear. At very shallow depths of field it's very hard to nail focus if either you or the subject is moving at all, especially if your subject is as close as she is in this image.</p>

<p>Do you have any samples that you are happier with as far as sharpness goes?</p>

[melissa_fogg]

<p>One thing I am wanting is the better iso performance for indoor portraits. I've done some newborn shoots and when i gotta bump the ISO up inside that grain annoys me! lol It's not to the point where it's like more grain than photo or something-- but it just brings the quality level down... I think the other thing in general is just what people will think about me shooting with a entry-level dslr, I guess. For example: I'm going to be going with the photographer who took my wedding photos as an assistant photographer on her upcoming wedding in a few months and I don't want to feel awkward if people are carrying around the same entry-level dslr as I have. That may sound stupid I don't know. Who knows some guests may have the canon 5d mark ii haha.<br>

As far as lenses-- all I have is a 50 1.8, the kit lens (18-55) and a 55-250-- I'm thinking of selling the kit lens and the 55-250-- the quality isn't really good enough-- and getting some better lenses.<br>

I don't know, i know ultimately it is my decision but any thoughts/opinions will help me to make that final decision so thank you very much!</p>

[steve_wagner1]

<p>Do you do mostly portraiture? If so, I would keep your camera for the time being, get an 85mm 1.8 lens, get a 430 speedlite flash and diffuser if you don't have a good flash, and maybe get the 70-200 f4 non-IS for general purpose photography if you have other areas of interest, since that's an awesome general purpose zoom for not much money. In any case I would not buy a 5d2 used, you're not saving much and you're inheriting risk.</p>

[alan_bryant1]

<p>When considering the 5D / 5D2, bear in mind your EF-S lenses won't work on those cameras. So you'll have to replace or go without the 18-55 and 55-250 if you go that route.</p>

<p>Have a look at the T1i battery grip. It's inexpensive and will make the camera look larger - bigger than the wedding guests have. It will go some way to solving the perception problem, and also makes it easier to hold the camera for portrait shots.</p>

[pmind]

<p>Melissa, you may be a good candidate for equipment rental...at least to help establish what you're preferences are. There are any number of online resources for mail order equipment rental to choose from. As for the 5D, I've been using one with a 50mm f/1.4 on a daily basis for 4 years now, and I'm very happy with the results. The 50mm f/1.4 is a pretty good lens, but autofocus isn't great in low light (but neither is the f/1.8). I also really like the 85mm f/1.8 for portraits, but it might be a bit longish on a crop body. The 70-200 f/4 is very sharp and also makes a great portrait lens...outside. Because the f/4 version is relatively slow, I wouldn't recommend it over the 85mm f/1.8 for indoor portraits (also, the bokeh can't compete). As has been said previously, a good flash and a little practice will also help greatly in those cases where you run out of f-stops. Good Luck.</p>

[arie_vandervelden1]

<p>Couple of things. The photo of the kid is nice but you missed focus on the left eye. When your subject is looking straight at you and there's eye contact, you need both eyes in focus. Shooting shallow dof is tricky business. Many a wedding photo has been ruined by too shallow dof and misfocus.</p>

<p>Second. Learn not to worry too much what others think of your gear. It is very much possible to shoot pro photos with the gear you have. That said, the kit lens is too slow for wedding work, as is the 70-200/4. Consider buying a f/2.8 standard zoom, e.g. Canon 17-55/2.8 IS or Tamron or Sigma. Add an 85/1.8 and a hotshoe flash and you're good to go. Once you start getting practice and establishing yourself, buy a 5D with standard zoom. Your T1i then becomes your backup rig. Good luck.</p>

[brett_w.]

<p>I would agree with the others, keep practicing and maybe upgrade the lens before spending more on cameras. Learn about "depth of field", shutter speed, aperture etc, Learn about using focus points and different lighting with people portraits. Getting a 5D won't (necessarily) make you a better photographer! </p>

[nathangardner]

<p>As said before, the T1i is a great camera that is capable of producing excellent images. If you're not satisfied with the photos then throwing money at a camera won't do anything; you'll just have the same photos with less money in your pocket. I'd try to go back to the basics and learn how to use the camera you have to its fullest potential and truly understand how it works and how to make it do exactly as you want it to. And also, light is the very premise of photography, understand light and how to use it or manipulate it to get the effects and photos you want. After you start really using the camera to its fullest potential then I would consider going full frame if the T1i starts to hold you back. Most people could use both full frame and crop cameras and get the same images without being able to tell a difference, but if you know how to manipulate the camera and its larger sensor then you achieve different effects with each camera.</p>

[ilya_e]

<p>I'd suggest staying with T1i and getting better lenses. Something like 17-55mm f/2.8 (great lens although very prone to dust) or maybe even 24-70mm f/2.8 for your main lens and a fast prime like 85mm f/1.8 or 70-200mm f/4 IS. Better body will not make your shots better and it looks like you have a lot to learn.</p>

[model mayhem gallery]

<p>I agree with what others have said here. Getting a more advanced camera at this point will delay your learning. I made the most money in photography with my first camera which was teh original Canon Dital Rebel 6MP and the 18-55 kit lens. I was eventually able to do professional grade work with that camera because I forced myself to learn how to overcome its limitations. The biggest thing you can do to help your photography is learn to use a tripod and focus well. Then you will create a reference for yourself. Other things like shooting at F8 rather than 1.8 and increasing shutter speed to eliminate camera shake. Leraning to underexpose by 1 stop to get more saturation in your colors. There are so many things you can do to get great shots out of the camera and gear you have that simply upgrading is not going to fix those issues. Mastering your existing camera in the long run will make you a better photographer than simply gettign a better camera.</p>

[henry_l]

<p>I have the t1i, and i agree with keeping it, and investing in lenses initially. It'll make a great back up when and if I go full-frame. I'm no pro, so I'm just waiting patiently for the full-frame cameras to lower in price (wishful) to something more reasonable, the 5d2 is a nice camera, but not $2500 nice, maybe to others, but that's just me.<br>

I've done a casual wedding with both T1i and Xsi, and the T1i had a grip with 24-70 mounted + 430 EXII flash, and that combo looks substantial to most guests. The xsi, had a 70-200 f/4 IS for the outdoor shots.<br>

Take a look at these pics, I don't know the photog, but his pics are amazing, albeit they're landscape/nature/wildlife and not wedding/portraiture. Most of his shots were taken with a 350D or 20D. Also note what lenses he used as well.<br>

http://www.juzaphoto.com/eng/juza_portfolio.htm#002561</p>

 

[steve_wagner1]

<blockquote><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=5609780">Ilya E</a> - Better body will not make your shots better and it looks like you have a lot to learn.</blockquote>

<p>I guess etiquette is not some people's strong suit.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Henry E. the 5d2 is a nice camera, but not $2500 nice</p>

</blockquote>

<p>IMO it's definitely $2500 nice. It's a spectacular piece of equipment worth twice the price. As you say though, personal opinion.</p>

[JDMvW]

<blockquote>

<p>it is true that full frame bodies are inherently better at higher ISO's than crop frame bodies</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This is not the place to debate this, but neither is it the best place to assert it <em>as though it were true without conditions</em>.<br>

I don't believe, for example, that a 5D mk 1 would outperform the latest model or two of the Rebel series at high ISO, much less a comparison to the 7D or even 50D. The Rebel sensors are essentially the same sensors as on the more expensive cameras <em>of the same generation</em>, although the processing may be a tad "older school" on the Rebels.</p>

<p>As several people have already said, the sensor on your existing camera is essentially the same as on the contemporary APS-C xxD cameras. It is fully capable of images as good, it is merely that the camera in general is neither engineered for the same level of use, nor is the control system as sophisticated as on the "higher" level APS-C and 35mm-sensor cameras.</p>

<p>I have an old 5D and I love it, but I needed it because I had legacy 35mm film lenses that I needed the larger sensor for. If I had waited and didn't have those older lenses, I would have got a 7D in all likelihood.</p>

[kerry_grim]

<p>At first glance the portrait looks blurry. Looking closely, the child's eye lashes on the right side of the right eye are very sharp. But you need more depth of field and a slightly better focus. This is so tightly cropped that background blur is irrelevant. What was the f stop? I bet if you shot at say 5.6 and focused on or between the nose, it would be an excellent photo.</p>

[alan_bryant1]

<p>For what it's worth, I personally like the very-narrow-depth-of-field look for portraits. I think Melissa's sample photo is pretty good. The detail is in the EXIF - 50mm f/2, 1/250, ISO 200.</p>

[divo]

<p>I have the 5D original and love it, but "low light" performance, when compared with newer cameras does show its age a bit. At a recent camera show, Canon set up an area that simulated a nightclub/bar setting for people to test their gear under low light conditions. This might be extreme, but it might give you some perspecitive. Here is an example at ISO 3200. Grain is definitely visible. See both 100% crop and a reduced full frame <a href="../photo/11443650">here:</a></p>

<p><img src="../photo/11443650" alt="" /><br>

<img src="../photo/11443651" alt="" /></p>

[PuppyDigs]

<p>The 5D series was originally marketed in Japan to gentleman amateurs. And, indeed, that is still probably its largest demographic. I see tourists carrying them all the time in Waikiki, but mostly middle aged males. I rarely see pros with 5D series except for wedding shooters. For some reason it is very popular with that niche.</p>

<p>Honestly you won't see much of a difference over your Rebel in smaller prints like 8x10 or 8x12. However, if your clients like big prints the 5D has a smooth rendering that both landscape and portraits shooters love. ALso if you suffer from bokeh fetish the 5D series allows you to max out the effect more easily than small format cameras.</p>

<p>To me the big attraction of both the 5D and 5DII is the huge and bright viewfinder. Makes the Rebel seem like a peephole. It makes shooting a lot more enjoyable and especially seeing the glory of the image, not to mention being easier to keep level. Also, the 5D series has more external buttons so it's faster to use manually or to set FEC or EC. The Rebel requires a lot more menu surfing. Finally I find the 5D series a lot more comfortable to hold for long shoots. My old Rebel grip was narrow and really bit into my knuckles.</p>

[PuppyDigs]

<p>You might also consider the Canon loyalty program: refurbished Canon 5DII for $1679 or the 7D for $1179. They both come with all accessories and a 90 day canon warranty. And, of course, you trade in your old camera.</p>

[alan_bryant1]

<blockquote>

<p>if you suffer from bokeh fetish</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I'm happy to know there's a name for my disorder :-)</p>

<p>Seriously though, do you think people are buying the 85mm f/1.2 L so they can use it at f/5.6?</p>