Usable Fast 4 x 5 lenses

[roger krueger]

My main interest is night photography; I've got an itch to move up from

my Mamiya Press to a 4 x 5. However, I've heard that many large format

lenses perform poorly wide-open; these apertures being provided mainly

to aid focusing. Are there any lenses that do offer good results at

f4.0 or f5.6? I don't need any movements, and am most interested in the

normal to moderate wide-angle fields of view.

 

How about the Linhof and Fuji 6 x 17 system -- are they sharp wide-

open?

 

Any thoughts on a good handheld 4 x 5s are sought too - My inital

assumption was that I wanted a Crown Graphic, or maybe a Linhof if I

find a wad of money, but any further input is welcome.

[paul_frank]

I think the bigger problem will be how will you compose on the ground glass. I've always wanted to try nite photography with 4x5 but it is just impossible with a standard dark cloth. To others in the forum- do relflex viewers help with low light composing?

[jason_greenberg_motamedi]

Roger,

 

Like you, I have been looking for a fast lens which works well open wide. I

have tried a number of lenses, and have found very few which fit the bill.

Modern Plasmats (f/5.6), in my experience, do pretty poorly open wide.

 

Xenars and Tessars, while fast (f/3.5 and up) do better than the plasmats but

still not great. I found that with these Tessar design lenses I had to use a much

longer lens to get good results, the same may be true with plasmats. I am

using a 300 f/4.5 Xenar on 5x7 and find it acceptable. I also have a 190mm f/

3.5 Tessar which does ok wide open with 4x5. I didn't find Heliars to be

acceptable open to f/4.5.

 

Schneider made the 150mm Xenotar (f/2.8) which appears to work quite well

open wide. They are however uncommon and expensive.

 

Another option is the 135mm Zeiss f/3.5 Planar. Coated versions are very

uncommon, but apparently these lenses do very well open wide.

 

A number of other options exist: Most notable are aerial lenses. These lenses

were designed to be used open wide. Most common of these are the Aero-

Ektars (f/2.5). Unfortuantly, I have found that these lenses all have yellow

stains on the rear element which reduces light by at least 2/3 of a stop,

sometimes more. The yellow stain makes a real ugly bokeh with color film. A

number of other aerial lenses are around, the Dallmeyer Pentac (f/2.9) makes

an occasional show on eBay, I have recently purchased one but haven't yet

tried it out. There are also Lee Speedic lenses (f/2.5) around, but they seem

to be very expensive and is (according to R. Kingslake) a poor performer.

 

Please note I have yet to do real resolution tests on any of these lenses.

These observations made with a good 10x loupe, which isn't the most exact of

tools...

[jim_galli4]

Roger, I've done a LOT of night photography, exposures by full moon etc. and I can tell you from real first hand experience because I also use Mamiya Universal, YOU CAN'T DO BETTER THAN THE MAMIYA 50MM F6.3!!

for that kind of photography. That Mamiya 50 is a Biogon type and would be so expensive to make now that you wouldn't want to think about it. There's a 75mm Zeiss Biogon for 4X5 but they're about $1800 bucks, and even if $ were no object, there's still the problem of focus. With the Mamiya you set the lens barrel at infinity and never think about it again. It's done, and that little biogon type is so sharp that even with available lenses in 4X5 you wouldn't see a gain.

I own 3 4X5's 2 5X7's 2 8X10's and an 11X14 but if it's night work that's going to be done, I leave all that stuff at home and take the Mamiya. Usually 2 Mamiya's. One on it's side with the 75 and the other with the 50.

[neil_poulsen1]

While I've never been much of a fan of these cameras, is this an application where a Linhof Technika with cams, rangefinder focus device would be useful? Don't they have infinity stops or something, so that one could at least know where to focus in that regard? For example, the eyepieces have paralax controls.

[ed_balko3]

Expanding on the idea of a rangefinder equipped technical or press camera, a Speed or Crown Graphic with a 150mm/f2.8 Xenotar might be an interesting combination.

 

I understand that the Xenotar has quite a small image circle so the modest movements of a Graphic would be unimportant with this particular lens. I can speak from experience that the rangefinder is suitable for nightime work.

[jim_galli4]

Even if you can solve the focus issues with reliable knowns to get you to infinity, then you've got the DOF issues inherent in large format lenses. The little 50 biogon type is focused from 6 feet to infinity at f6.3, and as sharp across the entire field at f8 as it will ever be.

[dan_fromm1]

Jim, I thought Universal lenses covered no more than 2.25 x 3.25. The original question was about 4x5.

 

Cheers,

 

Dan

[henry_suryo]

Hi Roger,

I think you may want to look into the Cambo Wide line of cameras. They are compact with helical focusing and most are f5.6 super wide to wide lenses. The lenses are always parallel to film plane, and they offer modest movements and great depth of field. I have the 90mm f8 and the lens is quite good wide open and the zone focusing is nice for hand held shots. It takes Graflok back 6x7, 6x9, 6x12 backs if you ever feel the need for roll film. Hope this helps,

Henry

[j._mose]

"Another option is the 135mm Zeiss f/3.5 Planar. Coated versions are very uncommon, but apparently these lenses do very well open wide."

 

All 135mm Zeiss Planar f/3.5 are coated lenses. In fact there were a small number of them manufactured in the 1980's that were multicoated. The single coated version was manufactured from 1958 through 1971. It performs very well at wide apertures. It is prone the flare however, so a lens shade is a must! The other 4 X 5 Zeiss lenses (75mm Biogon and 250mm Sonnar) also perform well at wide apertures.

[jim_galli4]

Roger, Yes only 2.25 X 3.25. I was arguing that for the kind of photography he was asking about, 4X5 is a step backwards. Stick with the 6X9 Mamiya Universal.

[jerry2]

Roger, if you don't need full coverage on 4x5, maybe something between MF and 4x5, you should consider the digital lenses by Schneider. Unlike LF lenses these are optimised at f8 - 11, so 5.6 would perform very well. These lenses are the sharpest lenses made today. And amazingly enough the prices are not that expensive. Consider RW in the UK.

[dick roadnight cotswolds]

Jason - yes Aerial lens are the answer.

 

The Aero- Ectar rear elements are radio-active, and this apparently causes the colouration.

 

I have a good Kodak Aero-Ectar 600 f 6.0, and a reasonable Wray 36", 900mm f 6.3. Both are on Sinar lens boards (the rear elements fill the lens board) but I have to make a support rail before I can use them.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Since the aero ektars are radioactive; maybe that helps keep the fungus in check :)