7D Video capability?

[jeff_licence]

<p>Hi,<br>

I'm just about to receive my new 7D with 15 - 85mm lens in the mail (very exciting) and am interested in people's experiences using it's video capability? <br>

Also, a few questions<br>

- Any suggestions for good basic video settings for outdoor/indoor shooting?<br>

- What's the mic pickup like? I've heard the built in mic is pretty poor, but would i get good quality sound with a good external mic plugged in?<br>

- About how long can i record video with a 16gb card?<br>

Many thanks and i look forward to your responses,<br>

Jeff</p><div></div>

[paul_russell1]

<p>Video capability is good, if you are used to shooting with a camcorder then you need to adjust your style a little, that is no live zooms, limited camera movement during a shot.<br>

<em><strong>- Any suggestions for good basic video settings for outdoor/indoor shooting?</strong></em><br>

If you are in a PAL region keep the shutter at 1/50th, NTSC region 1/60th.<br>

So use the ISO/aperture/ND filters to control the exposure. The shutter affects perception of fluidity of motion, don't be tempted to let it run high.<br>

Use WB presets such as tungsten, flouroscent, sunny overcast etc.<br>

Use MF. Check it before you record using the live view zoom. And check it after you zoom. Not all lenses hold focus through the zoom range.<br>

<strong><em>- What's the mic pickup like? I've heard the built in mic is pretty poor, but would i get good quality sound with a good external mic plugged in?</em></strong><br>

Its pretty crap. Use a plug in hotshoe mic like the sennheiser MKE400d or the Rode video mic. If you are really serious about audio you will need a beachtek or a juicedlink, plug in mic fine for amateur applications. Remember to switch it on, and check recordings by playback every so often in case the mic battery goes flat.<strong><em> </em></strong><br>

- <em><strong>About how long can i record video with a 16gb card?</strong></em><br>

<br />You can record approx 45mins total, but in chunks of up to just under 12mins. That is the maximum file size allowed by the cameras file formatting system is 4gb. Which equates to just under 12mins at full HD. On a 16gb you can fit four such chunks or many more smaller chunks.<em> </em><strong><em><br /></em></strong><br>

<strong><em><br /></em></strong></p>

 

[ilya_e]

<blockquote>

<p>If you are in a PAL region keep the shutter at 1/50th, NTSC region 1/60th.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This statement is incorrect and you keep repeating it. Shutter speed depends on the shooting mode. For 24p(NTSC) and 25p(PAL) you should use 1/50sec, For 30p (NTSC) you can use 1/30sec or 1/60sec.</p>

<ul>

<li>If you will be using 7D to make family/friends (no advanced shooting) the most useful accessory will be a Zacuto Z-Finder. It will stabilize camera somewhat (reduce handshake) and will help you focus. </li>

<li>You also don't need Rode or Sennheiser mics for hundreds of dollars. You can get Audio Technica for about $60. It's not as good but perfectly acceptable. </li>

<li>I agree that you will need a Vari-ND filter to use during daylight to maintain slow shutter speeds and wide apertures. </li>

<li>Create a custom picture setting and set everything to 0 (sharpening, , etc). </li>

<li>Keep WB set to Auto all the time unless you have controlled lighting and know what you are doing.</li>

</ul>

<p>I also recommend visiting forums dedicated to DSLR video. Dvinfo.net and cinema5d.com are the best. There is a video by Philip Bloom that can help you learn the camera and how to shoot videos with it. It's expensive though at $135. Good luck</p>

[paul_russell1]

<blockquote>

<p>This statement is incorrect and you keep repeating it. Shutter speed depends on the shooting mode. For 24p(NTSC) and 25p(PAL) you should use 1/50sec, For 30p (NTSC) you can use 1/30sec or 1/60sec.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>In what way is it incorrect? What is your source for this?<br>

1/30th may be the lowest permissable speed that the camera allows but it does not look fluid played back on the vast majority of video equipment. 1/50th PAL and 1/60th NTSC looks far better. You don't loose any of the filmic look as the cameras are progressive and the frame rate stays the same no matter what shutter speed you shoot.<br>

We'll agree to differ, but don't call me wrong. Different ways to skin a cat, crack a nut etc.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Keep WB set to Auto all the time unless you have controlled lighting and know what you are doing.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Interestingly, I could quite confidently say that this is wrong. Canons AWB is pretty crap. One of the few crap things about the 7D. The question was about the best settings to use. Auto is not best. Ask any colourist.<br>

But I won't say that. I'll agree to differ.<br>

In the meantime my footage keeps on getting accepted by clients (including broadcasters) so I'm in no rush to switch to 1/30th or AWB anytime soon.</p>

[KenPapai]

<p>I shot four HD videos with the 7D of an outdoor concert several weeks ago of Joan Jett & the Blackhearts. I used the 85mm lens and was pretty impressed with the overall quality including using just the built-in mic.</p>

<p>However, I am not a videographer, have not done any "serious" movies or video in a LONG long time. No matter, I was impressed with the 7D's HD video capabilties and its little microphone.</p><div></div>

[rogernoel]

<p>I bought the 7 D earlier this year, but not for the video capabilities but rather as a replacement for my 30D. After I recieved the camera, I thought maybe I should explore the video, but I find that this is not like shooting video with a point and shoot camera. From what I have read, one needs as a minimum a form of tripod dissimilar from what I have. A new microphone to pick up the sound. A fairly decent prime lens and an ND filter. When I think of the reels of film that I have from at least several camcorders, plus film from an old Revere movie camera circa 1950, I am not sure that I want to indulge in this new found technology. In any event Jeff, I wish you luck. Perhaps my comments are incorrect, but I doubt it. </p>

[ilya_e]

<blockquote>

<p>In what way is it incorrect? What is your source for this?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>My source is Philip Bloom DVD for 7D, multiple posts on all video forums plus my own experience. Check Dvinfo.net and cinema5d.com. 24p is an NTSC format and to achieve best quality you need shutter speed of 1/50sec. But according to your statement it would have to be 1/60sec. Which is incorrect and will introduce aliasing/jitters whatever they are called. Same goes for AWB. If you are an amateur and don't have controlled lighting you should always set camera to AWB.</p>

[paul_russell1]

<blockquote>

<p>I agree that you will need a Vari-ND filter to use during daylight to maintain slow shutter speeds and wide apertures.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Do note that I never specified a Vari-ND filter. My limited experience with then was not positive and so I could not, and would not recommend them. Maybe I got a bad one.<br>

Beware of the 'cross effect', Vari-ND filters are only really worth 2 or 3 stops on UWA and WA lenses before this creeps in, you only get the full 8 or 9 stops with telephoto lenses. With lenses beyond an effective 100mm or so you also start to suffer some softening.<br>

A basic 2 or 3 stop (or even a polariser, although this will have other effects too) behaves far more consistently across the zoom range than the vari-ND filters.<br>

Not saying <strong>IIya E</strong> is wrong or <em>incorrect</em>. No no. Just different ways of doing the same thing. <br>

I prefer my way. It works for me and for my clients.</p>

[ilya_e]

<p>Paul, you must have had experience with Fader-ND filter. I am a long time Vari-ND by Singh-Ray user and decided to buy Fader-ND to try it out. I was very disappointed by it as it softened up the image and introduced a color cast. It wasn't major but I still did not want to keep it. Vari-ND by Singh-Ray IMO is flawless even when set to 8-stops but cost about $400 so it all depends on your budget and preference. I did hear about the cross effect of Fader-NDs but I did not experience it. Maybe it depends on a copy or some other condition.</p>

[paul_russell1]

<blockquote>

<p>My source is Philip Bloom DVD for 7D, multiple posts on all video forums plus my own experience. Check Dvinfo.net and cinema5d.com. 24p is an NTSC format and to achieve best quality you need shutter speed of 1/50sec. But according to your statement it would have to be 1/60sec. Which is incorrect and will introduce aliasing/jitters whatever they are called. Same goes for AWB. If you are an amateur and don't have controlled lighting you should always set camera to AWB.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>24p is NOT specifically an NTSC. It can be NTSC or PAL. Unless your TV is set to a specific 24p mode it looks rank rotten.<br>

If you are shooting stuff for broadcast or for distribution then 25fps or 30fps is the way to go. If you are one of the very very elite few folk who shoot for large cinema projection then fill your boots, shoot 24p. Every broadcast engineer I know shudders when they get stuff shot on 24p. Aliasing is an artefact of your sensor and sampling, not of the frame rate or shutter speed. Jitter is only really a major issue beyond 1/100th: any half decent broadcast camcorder has a 'clear scan' mode that synchs at between 50hz and 90hz (effectively between 1/50th and 1/90th second) and won't introduce jitter.<br>

Analogue broadcast, digital broadcast and the vast majority of broadcast and replay equipment works best at 50hz scan (PAL) or 60hz scan (NTSC) this was to do with the electrical mains frequency, saving precious bandwith for analogue broadcast (2 fields of interlaced half frames) and what actually is watchable.<br>

Sorry to bang on, but you stated I was incorrect. I wasn't & I'm not. I've forgotten more about broadcast engineering and video cameras than you will ever know.<br>

AWB? C'mon man. </p>

<p> </p>

[ilya_e]

<p>Paul, 24p is NTSC and 25p is PAL. I think you will even find it in your manual for 7D. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate">Here</a> is a link to wiki where you can learn about frame rates. Or even better. Grab your camera and set your video shooting mode to 25p. Can you do it? Not unless you set your camera to shoot in PAL. Yes I agree that shooting in 24p will introduce more judders but if you need your movie to have a more of a film/cine look then 24p is the way to go. I mostly shoot in 30p but sometimes in 24p as I like those effects.</p>

[jeff_licence]

<p>Many thanks for the variety of useful responses and opinions. <br>

I'll keep it all in mind as I start experimenting in different situations.<br>

It sounds like the mic set up won't cut it for high end sound recording - interviews mainly and some music.<br>

Sounds like i would i be better off getting a separate audio recorder, or would a good quality mic plugged into the camera suffice? <br>

Jeff</p>

[steve_wagner1]

<blockquote>

<p>... or would a good quality mic plugged into the camera suffice?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No, the audio in all the Canon DSLRs is horrible, doesn't matter how good a mic you plug in. At the bargain basement end of things, for $200 you can get a Sony PCM-M10 (avoid the intro-level Zoom model, the Sony is far better at this price point) and improve your audio considerably.</p>

[paul_russell1]

<p>Yawn</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Paul, 24p is NTSC and 25p is PAL</p>

</blockquote>

<p>In either NTSC or PAL mode the 7D can capture 24p. 24p is NOT specific to NTSC. Apart from the frame rate issues there are also colour display issues. The PAL colour system and NTSC systems are quite different when it comes to gamut.<br>

Re-read your manual, or pick up your camera, set the video mode to PAL and see if you can get 24P to work (you will)<br>

NTSC version is actually 23.98P because of the drop frame timecode. PAL has linear timecode.<br>

Granny. Eggs. Suck.</p>

<blockquote>

 

</blockquote>

[steve_wagner1]

<p>Jeff, I should have been more clear that a good mic will help, but a good mic plugged into an audio recording device that is better than the DSLR - as the audio recording device - will be a lot better.</p>

[paul_russell1]

<p>Hi Brett,<br>

It's true that the pre-amps and AGC left to their own devices are rank rotten compared to a mid level or pro camcorder, but for most home users the quality is more than adequate. In my opinion. Certainly no worse than an MPEG or AVCHD camcorder with a basic PCM mic. Not great, but most home users seem to accept.<br>

I use a beachtech with AGC over-ride and as long as your mic has a decent output voltage the audio is actrually pretty good.<br>

If somebody is going to go to the expense of buying a seperate recorder then a beachtek makes as much sense, particularly as it stays on the camera, you don't have to remember to switch it on and hit record, and the av is all in one file, so no tricky synching.<br>

Well beyond what home users need, but if the user is serious enough to buy an extra mic and recording device then...</p>

<p> </p>

[jto1]

<p>Jeff,</p>

<p>I agree with the posts above about visiting Cinema5D.com. Great site. Lots of useful info that you can cherry-pick and use for future reference.</p>

<p>I've shot a lot of video on my 7D, and in addition to confirming much of what's above <a href="http://jtophoto.blogspot.com/2010/08/complexities-of-shooting-dslr-video.html">I also posted some of my experiences in this post from my blog</a>. </p>

<p>Enjoy the 7D. It's an incredible camera!</p>

<p>John</p>